Subject: RE: eBay sniping

From: "Mike" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Apr 24 16:21:42 2003

>>Specified end time with extended provision.  You don't have any such
>>"NORMAL" auction like this.
>
> Of course you do. "Normal" auctions are held on a specific day, which in
> real-world terms is much the same thing as an eBay end time. Hell, you
> even
> have "buy-it-now" (sold prior, in a normal auction format), withdrawn &
> changed lots.

At best, that is a stretch.  A specified end time, is just what it means. 
eBay is exactly what a sealed bid auction is.  A "normal" auction can
theoretically go for days.  An ebay auction ends at X:YY period.

Those that bid early are just people that make a bid and announce what
they bid.  But those that place their sealed bids at the end are unknown
until the end of the auction.  Any auction, where there is any real
interest, is ALMOST NEVER won by an early bid; making them essentially
non-bids.

>>This is like a
>>sealed bid auction because the auction ends at a specified time and the
>>winners will be those that place last second bids (i.e. not seen by
>>others).
>
> Absolute bullshit. A sealed bid auction does not allow you to bid more
> than
> once, nor do you know if your bid has been exceeded. Nor is there any
> advantage/disadvantage in bidding early or late, as no-one knows what the
> bids are until the auction finishes.

Sure they do.  Maybe some don't but many sealed bid auctions allow you to
get your bid back and make a change.  Until the end of the auction, you
can do as you like.

The auction you propose is:
1) one with a fixed end time that is published
2) has an extension period for x amount of minutes.

There exists NO such auction in the real world.  Only in your imagination
for a format that you think will give you a better chance of winning.  But
the bottom line is, you don't win, unless you have the high bid.  That is
what ebay does; that is what any real world auction does.

What you want is one that you can change your mind, essentially, after the
auction should have ended.

You want an auction where they auctioneer says, "Sold!" and you stand up
and say, "I was sleeping.  Give me one more minute."

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Apr 25 02:33:00 2003

> theoretically go for days.  An ebay auction ends at X:YY period.

No it's not.  The bids you make on eBay, unless the seller turns on the
feature to hide the bids, are open for all to see.  How is that not
totally and completely obvious to you?

> interest, is ALMOST NEVER won by an early bid; making them essentially

Just because people can choose to wait until the last second to enter a
bid does not make it "sealed-bid".  Your definitions are whack, yo.

> what ebay does; that is what any real world auction does.

Forget your argument.  It's going nowhere and does not really serve to
clarify the issue.

The analogy is that, if all the bidding is going to take place in the last
10 seconds by snipers, the days leading up to the end of the auction are
really like a "preview" period.  By extending the auction you give each
bidder a chance to up their bid in response to another bid.  It would be
analagous to the way a "typical" auction in the real world works.

> and say, "I was sleeping.  Give me one more minute."

No, you want an auction where you have a chance to enter a bid higher than
the last one.  A better analogy with sniping is that the auctioneer
screams "ONCETWICESOLD!" before you even have a chance to open your mouth.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
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