Subject: Re: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay

From: "Jim Kearney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 10:32:00 2003

>From: "Jim Kearney" <[email-masked]>
> there's One True Source. When I built mine (from Steve Gabaly's boards), I
> was
> able to find most of the TTL parts in 70's vintage.  So how 'new' is it?

p.s. but that's not to say that I wouldn't be clear about its construction
if I put it up for sale, of course.  That would be definitely be
misrepresentation,
even by omission.

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From: Robert Borsuk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 10:48:00 2003

Guys, honestly. If the person is happy paying $880 or $3300 dollars for 
something then shake their hand and congratulate them.  Just because 
some of us wouldn't pay that much for it doesn't mean that it doesn't 
make THEM happy.  Geez.

Sorry. Beat me with a stick ( a flaming one)

Rob Borsuk
[email-masked]

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From: "Erik S. Klein" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 12:03:27 2003

Rob Borsuk wrote:

> make THEM happy.

I think you are missing the point.  If the buyer was aware that this is
a reproduction kit and he bought it anyway then I agree with you
wholeheartedly.  I often spend more for items I am interested in then
our more frugal list-mates would think rational.  An informed consumer
making a decision should be happy about it.

If, on the other hand, the buyer believed that this was an "original"
Mark-8 (of 1974 vintage) then he will be disappointed, not happy, when
he realizes his error.

If, on the third hand (for those born near a radiation source), the
buyer was led to believe that this was an original, then he was
defrauded.

There is a strong parallel between this discussion and another hobby of
mine; old Corvettes.  In Corvette circles, however, there are guiding
organizations that carefully research, document, classify and adjudicate
what is original and what is not for a given car.  You can, therefore,
be sure that if you are buying a car judged by the National Corvette
Restorers Society as "Top-Flight" then you are getting a car that is 94%
original or better.  Original in their case is defined as "that's the
way it came from the factory."  Points are deducted for aftermarket
parts and modifications and undue damage to original parts.

The vintage computer hobby is probably a long way from that type of
situation, but many of the same "rules" apply and certainly the same
issues arise from time to time.  At least amongst those that collect for
historical value over hacking value.
 
Erik S. Klein
www.vintage-computer.com

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From: Robert Borsuk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 12:17:00 2003

I think I understand the point but I also respect your views. I can't 
reply to this without being flamed some more. SO to gracefully switch 
the topic.  I have a PRO-LOG  PM9052 board on my desk that I'm getting 
ready to take the 1702's out of. Anyone know about this board. it has 
PM9052 on it.  It looks like some kind of board for buring eproms.

Rob Borsuk
[email-masked]

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From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 13:10:00 2003

> historical value over hacking value.

Hmm, that is a really cool idea.  We definitely need something like that
in this hobby.  I see too many people either get ripped off or mislead on
a lot of eBay auctions.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

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From: "Bill Kotaska" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 18:04:00 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Borsuk" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Mark-8 Minicomputer Kit on E-bay

> I have a PRO-LOG  PM9052 board on my desk that I'm getting
The PM9052 was a module used in the Pro-Log Series 90 Programmers. It was
the personality module for 2716 and 2758 devices. The Series 90's were
interesting because they used the Intel MCS-4 series of processors. The
PROM(s) on each module contained the subroutines to implement the
programming algorithms unique to each device. Most likely the code in your
1702's is 4004/4040 code.

Bill Kotaska

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From: Robert Borsuk <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 12 20:10:01 2003

Cool beans. I also have a PM9005 I'm stripping too (It has some 2102's 
that I can't stay away from). These fine parts are going for my Altair 
680.
On a side note, I'm going to be porting Mikbug to my Motorola 
Monoboard.  Any gotchas associated with Mikbug. It looked like a pretty 
easy and straight forward port.

Rob Borsuk
[email-masked]