Subject: HH drives

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Apr 12 22:55:00 2003

Hi All

I have a newbie question <collective groan from list>
I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed 
a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's 
a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that 
desperate).

Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard 
drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989).

On boot up I get:
Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53
(c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd
640K Base 1408K Extended Memory
Hard Disk Failure

I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded 
one) is partially readable.
It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) - 
FAT16 system
It seems to have been installed with DRDOS.
Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to 
respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found' 
error).
Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked 
and now physically damaged?

I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive 
characteristics... are they all dead?

Thanks in advance

Alan

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Apr 12 23:48:01 2003

> characteristics... are they all dead?

Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives?  Does the clock/calendar work properly?  If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.

						- don

---

From: Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 00:01:01 2003

Check the BIOS settings first. I have a program called spinrite that I 
remember using to recover disks. I can't remember everything it can do, 
but I remember that it saved a lot of hard drives for me... let me know 
off line if you would like a copy and I can email it to you.

-Bryan

---

From: Marvin Johnston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 00:08:00 2003

> 640K Base 1408K Extended Memory

Have you checked the CMOS settings for the correct HD parameters? The
"sector not found" error sounds like the HD is being recognized, and it
is possible that a low level format followed by a high level format
might solve the problems. *My* preference in such cases is to use
Spinrite as it can reformat the drive without losing data ... assuming
the original data is still accessible.

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 00:51:44 2003

> battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I 
can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
A small victory:   Through persistence I can now read the data in the 
extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads 
sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously 
wants to be left alone...
Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite.

Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any 
information on Wyse Technologies machines?
The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector 
stating it was a 386 server???

Thanks

Alan

---

From: Marvin Johnston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 01:04:01 2003

> can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.

What kind of HD controller is being used, 8 bit or 16 bit? I have seen
XT controllers used in AT machines, and the bios hd settings are then
set at none.

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 04:54:01 2003

I've used a number of Wyse 286 & 386 machines in the past (as 
servers).  Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program built 
in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one kicking 
about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need it; might also 
have some manuals.)  If the battery went, then you need to set it up again.

They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the one 
closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode.  I also had a lot 
of disc failures in those days.  (I remember one particularly memorable day 
trying to read that one last sector off a dead disc on an old machine, in 
desperation dropping the machine 3", upside down, timed exactly right - and 
it read it!)

Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs - one 
shared between drives, one each per drive.  Floppy drives run from same 
controller.  Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel + 2 serial) 
video, etc.

Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?

regards

Rob.

At 17:49 13/04/2003 +1200, you wrote:

>The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I can 
>read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
>extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads sometimes 
>not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously wants to be 
>left alone...
>The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector stating 
>it was a 386 server???
>
>Thanks
>
>Alan

---

From: Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:52:10 2003

I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it would be 
easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone interested. If you are 
worried about the copyright, send your money to the address provided in 
the software! ;-)

Spinrite is available for download at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ 
save this file to a bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. 
It has been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't 
remember the details. Just read through the menus to see what it can do. 
Good luck!

This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not much longer. 
Download it now if you think you will ever need it!

-Bryan

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 17:49:01 2003

On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 21:50 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell wrote:

> servers).  Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program 
> built in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one 
> kicking about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need 
> it; might also have some manuals.)  If the battery went, then you need 
> to set it up again.

This machine has no BIOS that I can interrogate (I got the date from 
running scandisk from a later version of MSDOS) - On boot-up (using the 
floppy) it is asking for a Setup Disk (this could be what you mention 
above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy...
>
> They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the 
> one closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode.  I also 
> had a lot of disc failures in those days.  (I remember one 
> particularly memorable day trying to read that one last sector off a 
> dead disc on an old machine, in desperation dropping the machine 3", 
> upside down, timed exactly right - and it read it!)

Ouch!
>
> Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs 
> - one shared between drives, one each per drive.  Floppy drives run 
> from same controller.  Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel 
> + 2 serial) video, etc.

Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears 
to be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It 
also has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the 
machine is in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has 
had a hard life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a 
test bed for other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD 
bays).
> Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?

Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment 
(it does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this 
might come back to life?
> Rob.
Thanks for the info
Alan

---

From: Marvin Johnston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 19:24:01 2003

Pirating is not something that should be condoned on this list. SpinRite
is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment.

---

From: Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 22:47:00 2003

I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two after the company went out of business.)

-Bryan

>Spinrite is NOT shareware which is what you are suggesting by your comment.

---

From: Stan Pietkiewicz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 22:58:01 2003

Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5......

It appears that Gibson Research is back...

Bryan Blackburn wrote:

> I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if you 
> think the company is still in business, or would still recognize the 
> product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped using the 
> software when the hardware it was specifically designed to work with 
> became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a year or two 
> after the company went out of business.)
> 
> -Bryan
>

---

From: Frank McConnell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 23:10:01 2003

Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I'm not suggesting it is! What I am subtly suggesting, is that if
> you think the company is still in business, or would still recognize
> the product name, send them a check. More power to you! I stopped
> using the software when the hardware it was specifically designed to
> work with became obsolete, well over a decade ago. (Probably about a
> year or two after the company went out of business.)

Gibson Research is still in business, and still sells Spinrite.

http://grc.com/spinrite.htm

-Frank McConnell

---

From: Geoff Reed <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 00:20:01 2003

Gibson Research never went away :)

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 00:33:00 2003

> information on Wyse Technologies machines?

I fear that I cannot shed any light on the subject other than I
have heard of them.  Basically a PC clone, I'd guess.

						- don

---

From: Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 02:01:00 2003

That's only ONE more time that I've been wrong! But it's okay, I can 
take it. >Snif<

-Bryan

---

From: "Lawrence Walker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 03:50:00 2003

Why does this legalistic crap with high moral tone 
forever come up on the list. For the most part almost
all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
Spinrite made their money off this version back when 
MFM and RLL drives were still current. They no longer 
provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD. I have no 
problem with some small programmer still supplying AND 
supporting a vintage program that is of use but there are 
a thousand others sitting on a program which they won't 
put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the 
end user.
Why is there not an similar outcry about companies like
Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted
because of the Y2K only 5 years after they were issued. 
They knew damn well it was coming. I won't even touch 
on the liscensing aspect that the software giants use to 
avoid responsability for crap they issue.
Is it any wonder that so many are cynical about "piracy"
The days of "buttonware" and voluntary payment are long
past precisely because of these pigs. I will always be fair
to the small programmers but for most of the large 
companies it's tit for tat. Apple and a few others do the 
decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule.

Lawrence

On 13 Apr 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote:

> Pirating is not something that should be condoned on this
> list. SpinRite is NOT shareware which is what you are
> suggesting by your comment.
> 
> Bryan Blackburn wrote:
> > 
> > I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it
> > would be easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone
> > interested. If you are worried about the copyright, send
> > your money to the address provided in the software! ;-)
> > 
> > Spinrite is available for download at
> > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ save this file to a
> > bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. It has
> > been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't
> > remember the details. Just read through the menus to see
> > what it can do. Good luck!
> > 
> > This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not
> > much longer. Download it now if you think you will ever
> > need it!
> > 
> > -Bryan

lgwalker@ mts.net

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 07:19:00 2003

I don't think it ever went away. I've been visiting his site for years to catch up on the latest (and UNBIASED) info on firewalls, spyware, etc. I use his routinely LeakTest to test my firewall.  Even if you're not intersted in Spinrite, take a look at his site. There's lots of good info on there.

     Joe

At 11:54 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote:
+>Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5......

---

From: Marvin Johnston <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:10:01 2003

Lawrence Walker wrote:
> provide it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD.

Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts publicly doing
things that are not in the best interests of the classic computer
community. We are talking about software that is still a viable
commercial product (although granted, it appears to be an older
version.) Trying to trash the reputation of this hobby is not something
that I will be a part of, and I *will* say something.

Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it, where did you
come up with that information???  http://grc.com/default.htm still has
an announcement prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner.

---

From: Roger Merchberger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 12:12:01 2003

>an announcement prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner.

Here's what the owners manual for SpinRite 5.0 says:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

System Requirements
SpinRite operates with 100% IBM-compatible PC, XT, AT, PS/1 and
PS/2 personal computer systems equipped with at least one diskette
drive, 350K of free RAM, Monochrome, EGA or VGA display adapter
(not CGA) and DOS version 2.1 or later.
NOTE: SpinRite operates with most hard and floppy disk data storage
devices and technologies. However, some storage devices are inherently
different in design from the hard drives found in standard IBMcompatible
systems. As a result, SpinRite cannot operate upon some
hardware storage devices. For specific information, please see the
"Known Incompatibilities" appendix.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Now, if one were to have some older MFM/RLL hardware to test the latest 
version on, one would be able to let us know _if_ it still works. If not, 
then i'd say "sharing" _older_ versions to support older hardware wouldn't 
be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give 
the company your $$$...

Just my take, here's a grain of salt with it...
Roger "Merch" Merchberger

--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
[email-masked]

What do you do when Life gives you lemons,
and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????

---

From: "SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 13:02:00 2003

IIRC, the command "G=c800:5" from witin the dos 'Debug utility will
often launch a low-level format utility from the host adapter's roms....

Regards,

Jeff

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 13:29:00 2003

> be out-of-line, but if it does support it, then one should definately give

Why doesn't someone end the debate and just contact GRC to see if they
will release the older versions into the public domain?

If I didn't already have a bazillion jillion things going right now I'd do
it myself.

GIBSON RESEARCH CORPORATION
27071 Cabot Road, Suite 105
Laguna Hills, CA  92653
Sales: 800-736-0637
Sales: 949-348-7100
Fax: 949-348-7110
Sales: [email-masked]
Offices: [email-masked]

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

---

From: Geoff Reed <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 14:01:00 2003

At 01:07 PM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote:
>-SNIP-

I've used spinrite 5 on MFM, RLL, IDE and SCSI drives...

---

From: "Lawrence Walker" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 15:34:00 2003

Yup, version 5 and it won't do MFM and RLL HDs. Can 
any justification be made for any restrictions on the 
dissemnation of old software such as this which in no way
cuts into the sales of his newest product ?
 This is an on-going debate among classic computer
collectors and some formalistic posture as to the useage
of outmoded software is ludicrous. Most of the old 
hardware we attempt to get up and running would be 
consigned to landfills if we religeously held to that 
position. This is not about stealing the bread from some
hardworking programmers table but should be about his
responsibility to the community that enabled him to 
continue his type of work. If it's no longer a viable product
and is not supported, all deals are off. This would not 
justify someone coming along and marketing his product.
That's a different ball of wax.

 I just checked my version of Spinrite 1.2a. Under 
liscensing it says:

  o Consultant License --
     Consultants who wish to repair and revitalize systems 
belonging to others may do so by executing our 
CONSULTING USE LICENSING AGREEMENT 
and paying a $10 fee each time SpinRite is used on 
another system. 
     SpinRite must not, of course, be installed onto those 
drives.

 I hope those taking this position have religeously 
submitted the $10 whenever they've used it on someone
elses machine.

Lawrence

On 14 Apr 2003, , Marvin Johnston wrote:

> > forever come up on the list. For the most part almost all
> > old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
> > Spinrite made their money off this version back when MFM
> > and RLL drives were still current. They no longer provide
> > it and haven't seen fit to offer it to PD.
> 
> Whoa boy, I *will* speak up when this listserver starts
> publicly doing things that are not in the best interests of
> the classic computer community. We are talking about
> software that is still a viable commercial product (although
> granted, it appears to be an older version.) Trying to trash
> the reputation of this hobby is not something that I will be
> a part of, and I *will* say something.
> 
> Before you start saying they (GRC) no longer provides it,
> where did you come up with that information??? 
> http://grc.com/default.htm still has an announcement
> prominently offering SpinRite in their top banner.

lgwalker@ mts.net

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 16:29:01 2003

>above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy...

OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at the bottom of a 
filing cabinet!  Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with other 
miscellaneous stuff..  All on 5.25".  I've dragged them home, along with a 
suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC I'll read the discs 
and post the relevant files up somewhere.

>Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears to 
>be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It also 
>has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the machine is 
>in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has had a hard 
>life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a test bed for 
>other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD bays).

they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too...

>Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment (it 
>does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this might 
>come back to life?

As far as I remember, it showed the stuff you'd expect to see as LEDs on a 
PC - turbo status, flashing "C" for hard drive access, etc.  I /think/ you 
could get it to show the time, too..

Wyse are still going - http://www.wyse.com.  But they seem to concentrate 
on WinTerms now - even the "discontinued products" pages has newer stuff on 
them than I ever used of theirs!

I have some Wyse serial terminals (WY-120 I think) in a box buried 
somewhere, plus a (XT style) keyboard off a 286 if anybody wants them.

Regards

Rob

---

From: Paul Berger <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 18:39:00 2003

> all old computer collectors are using programs illegally.
<snip>
> put into public domain due to not giving a shit about the 

I usually take the extremely legalistic point of view to highlight to
people that the current system of copyright is broken, and only getting
more so to protect the interests of a few.

Whenever I catch somebody I know doing something that is technically
illegal I point out this fact most strenuous and let them know they can
get a criminal records, do jail time and receive millions in fines if
somebody takes offense at what they are doing.  I will then suggest that
if they think this is wrong they should contact their representative and
suggest things be changed.

Most shrug, figure I'm a kook (probably right) and don't do a damn thing
... this is why things won't change.

> Lotus or Borland that put out products that were obsoleted
<snip>
> decent thing but they are the exceptions not the rule.

Borland has released some of their old dos compilers on their community
site, so I would not knock them too much.  They sold off the rights to
many of their applications so I would not expect them to release them to
the public.

I'm hoping that the shareware type idea will come back with the rise of
open-source software creating new niches, and the big software companies
charging for support & updates.  You don't want support, the software is
free, but if you want somebody to answer questions, you need to pay the
author something.

Regards,
Paul

---

From: Mail List <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 19:58:00 2003

> if somebody takes offense at what they are doing.

 > and let them know they can get a criminal records, do jail time
 > and receive millions in fines if somebody takes offense at what
 > they are doing.

http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/

http://www.bsa.org/

http://www.spa.org/

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ip.html

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ob/OBMain.htm

Also note, there was recently a request for information from a
country which the US has economic sanctions against.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sanctions/t11iran.pdf

Perkin-Elmer equipment might have "dual use" applications.

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 04:50:00 2003

On Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003, at 09:26 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell 
wrote:
> filing cabinet!  Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with 
> other miscellaneous stuff..  All on 5.25".  I've dragged them home, 
> along with a suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC 
> I'll read the discs and post the relevant files up somewhere.
>
Thanks!

> they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too...

You bet, feels like they're lead lined

Thanks again
Alan

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 04:53:00 2003

>and post the relevant files up somewhere.

Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/

Wyse Setup, Kaypro Setup,  Some driver discs for each.  DOS 3.30.
Also an Apricot boot disc.  See the .txt file on each for a directory.

They are straight dd images, if you are using dos/windoze, you'll need to 
use rawrite.exe or fdimage.exe (google for them) to copy these back to a 
floppy.

Regards

Rob.

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 05:04:01 2003

>Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/

hmm, it truncates the list, so for the record:-

AT + Kaypro Setup
AT + Kaypro Setup.txt
Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk
Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk.txt  [*]
DOS3.3+Setup for Wyse.txt
Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bit + Video Emulaton SW
Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bt + Keyboard Emulation SW.txt [*]
Kaypro Speedstor
Kaypro Speedstor.txt
Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00
Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00.txt [*]
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]
Wyse Setup
Wyse Setup-fdiag
Wyse Setup-fdiag.txt
Wyse Setup.txt
at setup
at setup.txt

Forgot to mention - files are labeled as the discs were - I think "AT 
setup" means "Wyse AT", as I had another disc labeled such with the same 
files on it, but with read errors.  Certainly Wyse were the main machines 
we used at the time, so it's unlikely to be anything else.  Those marked 
[*] are actual original discs - others are copies or contain just odd files.

Regards

Rob.

---

From: "Dr. Ido" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 08:36:01 2003

>Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]

Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor?

I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get
anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it.  Very nice in
text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long
persistance white phoshor CRT.  Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm
pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right
software/drivers.

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 10:28:12 2003

>pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right

To be honest, I don't know!

Apart from the above description, the label has a part code of 730288-01, 
(C)Wyse Technology, Inc. 1989.  No other info I am afraid..

Files on there include "mpatest.exe" so I suspect if you run that against 
your card it might indicate something..

regards

Rob,

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 12:57:00 2003

> pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right

It was also sold as the Amdek 1280.  Try to find a newer version of the
drivers (I doubt that I can find mine).  There were drivers available
through Windoze 3.10, as well as drivers for Xerox Ventura, etc.  The 1280
x 800 mode was one of the best of its time.

One common problem was a gradual loss of brightness.  There was another
brightness control inside the case that couldbe cranked up to get another
year or so before it became too dim to use.

One other common problem was idiots plugging it into a EGA, CGA, or MDA
board (or plugging a regular monitor into its special board).

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        [email-masked]

---

From: "SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Apr 17 00:22:01 2003

I agree wholeheartedly.  If I'd not bought a set of original tapes for
my Data General mini, I'd have a lump of recycleable metal instead of a
functioning, neato computer.

Now, I bought the tapes fair and sqare, but from a licensing standpoint
they should have been either returned to DG or destroyed.  They were
really hard to find as a large percentage of DG customers complied with
the license.  The US Forest Service for instance destroyed all of thier
media, documentation, etcetera.  They also blanked the drives on the
machines they sold to scrappers.

So far as I know, I'm the only private person on the planet with a full
install set for AOS/VS II v3.0 and TCP/IP. Those three tapes are golden.
I also have several versions of thier ades/adex diagnostic software
which contains microcode for ALL data general MV (Eagle) machines.

These tapes are all completely illegal for me to own.  Until a couple of
years ago the OS and tcpip were available from DG, but they wanted
$1300.00 for them.  I told DG where to stick it and instead dropped
$300.00 on a 9track, controller, and the golden tapes.

I doubt any court in the world would convict me for this. Especially in
light of DG's aquisition by EMC about a year after I got the machine up
and running.

I was totally floored that Digital had thier hobbyist license for VMS
and layered products.  I signed up right away!  Data General might still
be making computers if they weren't such tightasses.

Regards,

Jeff

---

From: "Bruce Ray" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Apr 17 01:06:00 2003

G'day Jeff -

Be aware that TLC Corporation in Uxbridge MA has the distribution rights
to -all- of the DG 32-bit MV software and still actively charges for use of
all DG (now EMC) software products and TLC must still pay royalties to EMC.
I am trying to work on a hobbyist along with more attractive "commercial
use" license arrangement for the 32-bit (and 16-bit) software, but all of it
is still covered by license requirements from TLC to EMC.

Bruce