Subject: RE: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?

From: Gooijen H <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 01:31:01 2003

Yep, had read about that a few months ago.
See my text on the website:

www.pdp-11.nl/pdp11-35/memory/core-intro.html

MRAM is described (brief) at the end. Also has
a link to a Motorola article!

  greetz,

- Henk.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan Pope [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: dinsdag 10 juni 2003 16:23
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Magnetic Memory making a comeback?
> 
> 
> There is a _new_ type of memory being developed called MRAM, 
> which uses magnetic fields to store data.
> 
> An interesting quote from the article (to bring it on-topic):
> 
> "Magnetic fields have been used to store data since time immemorial,"
> he joked. "We were using it in the early 1960s and 1950s."
> 
> The article can be found at:
> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-1014865.html
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bryan

---

From: Jim Davis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 04:09:01 2003

>a link to a Motorola article!
IBM reports success with magnetic memory,
www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp
Jim.

---

From: "Gary Dean Hildebrand" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 04:50:01 2003

>> See my text on the website:
 snip snip
> www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1122890,00.asp

I remember when DRAM was 'faster than static RAM, and that was great until 
static ram became faster than dynamic.  All a matter of technology needing 
something and then getting it. 

Nowdays fast is the word, with buss speeds over 200 mHz.  Sometimes old 
ideas need nothing but an update.  And of course volatility is a factor here 
too. 

What I've always wondered is that the main data storage is still 
magno-mechanical, not much fundamentally different than storage was in the 
50's and 60's with diskpacks.  You'd think that a completely electronic 
storage would have emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs? 

As a humorous sideline:  When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to make 
a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . .  . . 

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

---

From: Mail List <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 11:28:01 2003

> You'd think that a completely electronic storage would have
 > emerged by now, besides small EEPROMs?

FLASH Memory, Solid State Disk Drives, etc. They do now exist.

At 04:42 AM 6/11/03 -0500, you wrote:
>ideas need nothing but an update.  And of course volatility is a factor 
>here too.
>As a humorous sideline:  When NASA spent thousands of dollars trying to 
>make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . .  . .
>Gary Hildebrand
>St. Joseph, MO

---

From: William Donzelli <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 11:33:22 2003

> FLASH Memory, Solid State Disk Drives, etc. They do now exist.

It should also be noted that magnetic memories have been making a 
comeback for about 20 years now...along with integrated circuits with 
tubes...

William Donzelli
[email-masked]

---

From: Tom Uban <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 11:51:00 2003

Does anyone know if there are problems with close proximity magnetic
fields and MRAM?

--tom

---

From: emanuel stiebler <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 13:08:00 2003

> make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . .  . .

Which was a smart thing to do, this way they got rid of all static in 
space having all this graphite flying around through the air ...
;-)

---

From: "TeoZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 14:03:00 2003

Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen?

---

From: Kevin Handy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 15:05:00 2003

>Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen?
It wouldn't matter much which one you used. The one that needs
sharpening would have a somewhat higher volume of conductive
dust floating around, but both generate stray carbon dust, and
conductive chunks that break off when used.

I'd rather not have to worry about loose pieces of flamable conductive
dust floating around.

>>>make a pen work in zero-G, the Russians simply used a pencil . .  . .
This is just an urban legend.  

    http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm

Just because it sounds too good to be true, doesn't make it true. ;=)

>>space having all this graphite flying around through the air ...

Fischer saw a business opportunity, and designed a pen that would work
in space. They initially sold 400 to NASA at 2.95 each. That's a lot less
than 1.5 million. They made more selling them to the public as a pen that
could write upside down.

---

From: "TeoZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 15:21:00 2003

Well I would be more worried about the guy with the methane farts next to me
then the stray pencil lead dust.
That or if the heat tiles on the shuttle are still there on the way back
home.

Some of the things the russians did were low tech but usefull. Whose smart
idea was it to fill a capsule full of electical boxes with 100% oxygen
environment for no particular reason?

---

From: steven <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 15:25:00 2003

I saw this at a local computer joint - a Bell Labs
suitcase programmer with a MAC-8 CPU?

The manual was from 1979.

What do you make of it? Should I pick it up for anyone
here?

Thanks-
Steve.

---

From: William Donzelli <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 16:59:00 2003

> then the stray pencil lead dust.

NASA was also very concern about the conductive carbon dust or particles 
causing electrical problems.

> environment for no particular reason?

There was a sound reason - use a high oxygen atmosphere, so you can lower 
the pressure inside the capsule and still have it breathable. With a 
lower pressure inside, the walls of the capsule can be much thinner, 
saving weight.

William Donzelli
[email-masked]

---

From: Brian Chase <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 17:06:01 2003

> Was it a click type plastic pencil or the ones with wood you sharpen?

I'd probably opt for something like a wax pencil or maybe a non-graphite
black or blue colored pencil.  I've seen some of them which are
"sharpened" by peeling off a layer of paper that's wrapped around the
lead.

-brian.

---

From: "TeoZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 17:28:00 2003

Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath because of
the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using oxygen wouldnt
help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things that are normally low
combustible highly combustible.

---

From: Brian Chase <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 17:34:00 2003

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, TeoZ wrote:

> Never heard of the lower pressure before. I thaught humans breath
> because of the buildup of co2. So lowering the pressure and just using
> oxygen wouldnt help much would it? Besides 100% oxygen makes things
> that are normally low combustible highly combustible.

Take a cubic meter of air at STP.  Remove all the non-essential gasses,
leaving only the oxygen behind.  You'll end up with same amount of
oxygen necessary to support human life, but the overall pressure will
be lower owing to the lack of those useless gasses.

Well, that's my educated guess at least.

-brian.

---

From: Patrick Finnegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 17:36:14 2003

> environment for no particular reason?

Actually, both us and the Russians did that; they even did it first.  Of
course, it happened to them 'behind closed doors' so we didn't get a
chance to learn from their mistake.

Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/

---

From: "TeoZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 17:56:00 2003

Yes, some russian caught something on fire in a test situation and it went
up like the hindenburg before he could put it out. I worked at a company for
over a year that did work with liquid oxygen, and after it went into a heat
exchanger oxygen gas. Its interesting what will burn in the presence of pure
o2 gas. Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and allowed to seep into it
can be very explosive (a leak of liquid o2 into a parking lot made of
asphault cane make one huge explosion under certain circumstances).

Now that I think about it doesnt nitrogen gas in your blood cause the bends
when you go from a higher pressure to a lower pressure (as in diving)? So if
your breathing normal air and you have a pressure drop in the capsule your
in for a world of hurt and that would affect your ability to fix the leak.

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jun 11 21:06:00 2003

--- Brian Chase <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > because of the buildup of co2.

That, and to intake O2.

> > So lowering the pressure and just using oxygen wouldnt help much
> > would it?

On the contrary... (see below)

> > Besides 100% oxygen makes things

That is certainly true.
 
> Well, that's my educated guess at least.

That's it.  It's due to the partial pressure gas law... our respiratory
systems depend on there being O2 at around 0.20 atmospheres.  It doesn't
really matter (within limits) what "inert" gasses are mixed with it.
It's not about total pressure - it's only the partial pressures of the
individual consituents that matter for the a variety of physical processes
to work, including respiration.  CO2 is used as a regulator as well as
being a waste gas - we detect CO2 buildup in our lungs and regulate
the breathing rate to keep it down below, IIRC, 1%-2%.

Heliox is great for diving because it's a mix of O2 plus He2 to about
one Atm... solves the pressure problem at depth plus the problem of
N2 at depth being bad for you.  Other gasses would work, too, but
AFAIK, He2 is used for cost as well as inertness (by-product of the
natural gas industry, IIRC).  As an aside, there's a heliox tank
that visitors can suck on at the local science museum.  All the
fun of a Donald-Duck-voice without the unpleasant side-effects of
pure Helium! (asphyxiation, embolism, etc.)

Humans can survive in a 100% oxygen atmosphere at ~20-25% of pressure
at sea-level, but there are other, non-biological consequences, mainly
severely increased risk of fire.  

-ethan

---

From: Chad Fernandez <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jun 12 01:56:01 2003

> "sharpened" by peeling off a layer of paper that's wrapped around the

That's a grease pencil..... I wouldn't want to use one for paper work. 
They're better suited for writing on plastic surfaces.

Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA

---

From: Alexander Schreiber <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jun 12 15:20:00 2003

> asphault cane make one huge explosion under certain circumstances).

Combustible substances (saw dust, cotton, ...) soaked with liquid oxygen
were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch). Nice
property of it: if you don't need it to go *BOOM* anymore, just wait
until the liquid oxygen has evaporated ... although normal industrial
explosives sure are safer to handle.

Regards,
      Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."                                      -- Thomas A. Edison

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jun 12 15:33:00 2003

--- Alexander Schreiber <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > I worked at a company for over a year that did work with
> > liquid oxygen... Liquid o2 spilled on anything organic and
> > allowed to seep into it can be very explosive...
> 
> were sometimes used as explosive (called oxyliquit or somesuch).

There's some comments to that effect on George Gobel's web page about
accelerating charcoal grill lighting with LOX... He cautions the
experimentacious reader to have an ignition source (he uses a cigar,
IIRC) present amongst the briquettes to avoid turning them into
latent detonation devices.

His page _used to be_ at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/ , but there's
a comment now from earlier this year about its removal.  :-(

-ethan

---

From: Patrick Finnegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jun 12 16:13:00 2003

> a comment now from earlier this year about its removal.  :-(

It has been archived (with pictures, even) on the WayBack Machine at
http://web.archive.org/web/20021003203611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/

I must say, the grill lighting is pretty damn impressive.

Pat

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jun 12 16:36:01 2003

> a comment now from earlier this year about its removal.  :-(

Well, you never know when some terrorist is going to try to build a bomb
with lighter fluid and lox.

False sense of security notwithstanding, now that the page is removed, no
one will be able to do damage with that particular information.  No siree.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jun 12 16:40:01 2003

> http://web.archive.org/web/20021003203611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/

Nobody tell the Department of Homeland Security!

--

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu Jun 12 21:02:00 2003

In message <[email-masked]>, Ethan Dicks wr
>a comment now from earlier this year about its removal.  :-(

Well, I can't help myself throwing in a couple of (albeit continued
off-topic) anecdotes.  The first comes from my dad when he worked
for General Dynamics in Fort Worth, TX.  It seems that someone was
there demonstrating some of the properties of LOX.  Apparently,
he poured some on the alphalt and then threw a brick at it from
a distance.  Dad says that it shook dust off the rafters in the
factory.

The other anecdote relates to Gobel's former page.  He talked about
a graduate student who talked him into doing it one more time "for
the cameras."  It turns out he was my office-mate when I was a
grad student at Purdue.  My favorite memory comes from the semester
he was teaching the COBOL course.  There were inevitably long
lines of students with questions during his office hours during
which I couldn't get much done.  So instead of twiddling my
thumbs I started helping his students out too.  Of course it
was all worthwhile when a cute redhead came back for help a
few more times.

Brian L. Stuart