Subject: Amiga 2000 "Video Toaster Powered"

From: Doc Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Apr 12 17:03:01 2003

Hi.
   I ran across an Amiga 2000 yesterday, with the front of the case 
silk-screened "Video Toaster Powered".  No cables, keyboard, docs, or 
anything else, but the price was right.
   The motherboard is probably junk.  The battery has leaked and etched 
a pretty large area, plus the GVP 030 accelerator (A3001) has dumped 
rubber sludge on the board.  The rubber button on the back of the board 
*melted* and ran like hot fudge.

http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/A3001-50-back.jpg shows the button 
intact.  Beware; that's a half-meg pic.

   There is a RAM-32 daughterboard, too, with 2x 4MB SIMMs,

http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/A3001-RAM32.jpg

  and a GVP SCSI hardcard with a 340MB drive and no DRAMs installed.
   The Video Toaster boardset is labeled v1.0, but there's a sticker 
that reads "Eval Board  08/90"  It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, a 
"Y/C Separator Board".

http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=ycp100

Also installed are 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video.

http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=amilink

   The short card I have has only 3 BNC connectors - positions 1. 3, and 
5, and the long card has only the bottom two.

   I have another working 2000, so I could replace the motherboard, but 
I'm not sure I'd gain anything.  I have a bunch of questions.  I'm not 
really an "Amiga person", so don't assume any reasonable level of prior 
knowledge.

   Where the heck is the video out?  I know zip about Video Toaster and 
even less about the Amilink adapters.  All the online documentation 
assumes I know the basics, like how to hook the durned thing up....
   Are there docs for the original VT?  Software?
   I have an OpalVision, with documentation and software.  Which is the 
better board for general futzing around?  For animation & graphics?
   Any docs or software at all for the Amilink setup?
   Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium?  I have a 33MHz CSI 
"Derringer 030" in the other 2000, but I don't like the clearance 
between the top of the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none.  
Plus, a 50MHz 68030 would be much nicer than a 33MHz.  The hardware 
database page claims that the RAM-32 board needs 4x 1MB SIMMs installed 
to use the 2 4MB sticks, but this one just has 2x 4MB in the top two 
slots.  Is the database page smoking crack?
   I haven't seen any pics or mention of the A2000 with the Toaster 
label on front.  I get the impression that this machine is pretty much 
original - that it wasn't built a piece at a time.  Anyone know 
anything about that?

	Thanks.  Any pointers or help would be appreciated.

---

From: Patrick Finnegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Apr 12 17:27:00 2003

> assumes I know the basics, like how to hook the durned thing up....

If it's in there, it's a card on the opposite side of the power supply
from the other cards in the machine.  Should have 6 BNC connectors on it,
the bottom two are Program and Preview outputs (I *think* in that order,
can never remember).

>    Are there docs for the original VT?  Software?

I've got some of each, contact me off-list.

> better board for general futzing around?  For animation & graphics?

Never heard of that.  The VideoToaster is good for (live) video
switching/effects, titling, and that's about all.  There's a 3D animation
package, but you're probably better off with a good modern PC with a good
video card.  Things take AGES to render on something that slow.

>    Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium?  I have a 33MHz CSI

Those look a lot like 72pin SIMM slots.  Have you tried parity or
non-parity 72pin SIMMS from a PC or MAC yet?

> between the top of the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none.

That's what electrical tape is for...

Pat
--
Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu

---

From: Doc Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Apr 12 17:47:00 2003

> the bottom two are Program and Preview outputs (I *think* in that 

   Oh, yeah, the board set is there.  I just can't find any specific 
diagrams or instructions.
> I've got some of each, contact me off-list.

   OK.

> video card.  Things take AGES to render on something that slow.

   If I want to do serious rendering, I'll probably fire up the 
AS2100A....  This is strictly a toy.

> non-parity 72pin SIMMS from a PC or MAC yet?

   No, they're a proprietary form factor.  64-pin, IIRC.  Bigger than 
30-pin, smaller than 72-pin.  Bah!

> That's what electrical tape is for...

   It's more a matter of ventilation than insulation. I'm sort of 
paranoid about processors with no room for airflow.

	Doc

---

From: "Dr. Ido" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 01:02:00 2003

>30-pin, smaller than 72-pin.  Bah!

64 pin SIMMs can be found in Mac IIfxs and some AST 386/486 PCs, though I
doubt either are that easy to find now.  Can't say whether these 64 pin
SIMMs are the same as the ones used on your card either..

---

From: "Gary Dean Hildebrand" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 03:26:01 2003

> anything else, but the price was right.

You're kinda SOL without a keyboard as a PC keyboard will not interchange.  
You can get an adapter that translates the keycodes from PC to Amiga and 
then use a cheap PC keyboard for about the same price you'd pay for an Amiga 
2000/3000 keyboard.  The mouse is incompatible as well, and if you had the 
keyboard you could work around that. 

>   The motherboard is probably junk.  The battery has leaked and etched a 
> pretty large area, plus the GVP 030 accelerator (A3001) has dumped rubber 
> sludge on the board.  The rubber button on the back of the board *melted* 
> and ran like hot fudge.

Does it boot up -- should give you a picture of a hand inserting a workbench 
1.2 or 2.x disk out both the RGB and the composite video jacks.
>   The Video Toaster boardset is labeled v1.0, but there's a sticker that 
> reads "Eval Board  08/90"  It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, a "Y/C 
> Separator Board"

That gives you s-video output --- seperates the chroma from the luminance 
information, like on S-VHS recorders.  A bit better video quality doing 
things this way..
> Also installed are 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video.

These are probably TBC's needed for two tape inputs for the Toaster.  They 
only got DC power from the ISA buss.
>   The short card I have has only 3 BNC connectors - positions 1. 3, and 5, 
> and the long card has only the bottom two. 
> 

Got me there. 

>   I have another working 2000, so I could replace the motherboard, but I'm 
> not sure I'd gain anything.  I have a bunch of questions.  I'm not really 
> an "Amiga person", so don't assume any reasonable level of prior 
> knowledge. 
> 
>   Where the heck is the video out?

The connectors on the Toaster should be Inputs 1-4 , preview, and video 
output top to bottom.  All inputs have to be sync timed to the #1 input, 
which is the reference that the Toaster works from.   The monitor has to be 
RGB, attached to the DB23 ouput connector.  Composite video is available at 
the RCA jack, but is not color encoded (b&w) 

>   Are there docs for the original VT?  Software?

I don't have copies yet, but it is out there.  You can get a CD ROM from 
Newtek for $100 that has all the versions of the software. 

> better board for general futzing around?  For animation & graphics?

Stick with the native gfx for general futzing/games/etc.  The Opalvision and 
other gfx boards just provide greater resolution/color resolution, and 
usually feed a VGA/SVGA mornitor.  Native video mode is NTSC rates RGB 
analog output.  You'll soon find out why Amigas needed a flickerfixer. 

>   Any docs or software at all for the Amilink setup?

I'm sure there is -- might check aminet.org for anything pertinenet. 

>   Are the SIMMs for the A3001 unobtainium?  I have a 33MHz CSI "Derringer 
> 030" in the other 2000, but I don't like the clearance between the top of 
> the accelerator and the drive bay - basically none.  Plus, a 50MHz 68030 
> would be much nicer than a 33MHz.  The hardware database page claims that 
> the RAM-32 board needs 4x 1MB SIMMs installed to use the 2 4MB sticks, but 
> this one just has 2x 4MB in the top two slots.  Is the database page 
> smoking crack?

I think GVP-M still has those SIMMs available, as they used those in quite a 
few of their products.  They ain't cheap. 

>   I haven't seen any pics or mention of the A2000 with the Toaster label 
> on front.  I get the impression that this machine is pretty much original 
> - that it wasn't built a piece at a time.  Anyone know anything about 
> that?

The Amigas with the Toaster racing stripe were OEM machines built by Newtek 
and sold turnkey with whatever was needed to make things all work.  The GVP 
SCSI controller was needed for HD access, and the 030 made things a bit 
livlier than the 7 mHz 68000 in the stock A2k.
> 	Thanks.  Any pointers or help would be appreciated.

Glad to help out there.  I have 15 Toaster cards here collecting dust . . . 
. . 

Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO

---

From: Doc Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 04:01:01 2003

On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 03:22 AM, Gary Dean Hildebrand wrote:

> You're kinda SOL without a keyboard as a PC keyboard will not 
> interchange.  You can get an adapter that translates the keycodes from 
> PC to Amiga and then use a cheap PC keyboard for about the same price 
> you'd pay for an Amiga 2000/3000 keyboard.  The mouse is incompatible 
> as well, and if you had the keyboard you could work around that.

   I have a keyboard that belongs to the other 2000, and several mice.  
What I don't have is the cables for the Toaster.

>>   The motherboard is probably junk.  The battery has leaked and 
>> etched a pretty large area, plus the GVP 030 accelerator (A3001) has 
>> dumped rubber sludge on the board.  The rubber button on the back of 
>> the board *melted* and ran like hot fudge.
>
> Does it boot up -- should give you a picture of a hand inserting a 
> workbench 1.2 or 2.x disk out both the RGB and the composite video 
> jacks.

   Haven't powered it at all.  I want to at least get the rubber sludge 
off the board first, and replace the onboard battery.  I'm much more 
concerned about the etching around the battery than anything else.

>> that reads "Eval Board  08/90"  It's cabled to a Faruodja Labs board, 
>> a "Y/C Separator Board"
>
> That gives you s-video output --- seperates the chroma from the 
> luminance information, like on S-VHS recorders.  A bit better video 
> quality doing things this way..

   So if I can find docs for that board, I can get output with a 
standard S-video cable?

>> http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=ycp100 Also installed are 
>> 2 ISA cards by RGB Computers and Video.
>
> These are probably TBC's needed for two tape inputs for the Toaster.  
> They only got DC power from the ISA buss.

   Ah.  I kind of thought that.  It's an AT card-edge, which would be 
incredibly slow graphics.

>> http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=amilink   The short card 
>> I have has only 3 BNC connectors - positions 1. 3, and 5, and the 
>> long card has only the bottom two.
>
> Got me there.

   They're definitely some iteration of the Amilink set.  I wonder if 
they are the CI set, which only supported one particular VCR.

> The connectors on the Toaster should be Inputs 1-4 , preview, and 
> video output top to bottom.  All inputs have to be sync timed to the 
> #1 input, which is the reference that the Toaster works from.   The 
> monitor has to be RGB, attached to the DB23 ouput connector.  
> Composite video is available at the RCA jack, but is not color encoded 
> (b&w)

   OK, thanks.  This means that I can attach my 1084 to the standard 
connector, without any cabling for the Video Toaster, right?  The 
documentation to the OpalVision card in the other A2000 warns against 
that, so I didn't want to experiment much.

> I don't have copies yet, but it is out there.  You can get a CD ROM 
> from Newtek for $100 that has all the versions of the software.

   Oh, yeah, I saw that on their website.  I can get a later-rev Video 
Toaster off eBay, with software, documentation, and cables, for much 
less.

   Speaking of revisions, does the fact that it's labeled an eval board 
mean anything?  In terms of drivers and software, and in terms of value?

> Stick with the native gfx for general futzing/games/etc.  The 
> Opalvision and other gfx boards just provide greater resolution/color 
> resolution, and usually feed a VGA/SVGA mornitor.  Native video mode 
> is NTSC rates RGB analog output.  You'll soon find out why Amigas 
> needed a flickerfixer.

   BTDT, with the flicker....  The OpalVision is 23-pin RGB output, and 
so far I haven't found anything to gripe about with it.

> I'm sure there is -- might check aminet.org for anything pertinenet.

   I wasn't able to resolve www.aminet.org, and it was down last month 
too.  Know of a working mirror?

> I think GVP-M still has those SIMMs available, as they used those in 
> quite a few of their products.  They ain't cheap.

   'Fraid of that.  I'm terribly tempted to shift some chips around.  I 
know the Derringer supports a 50MHz CPU....
   My mix & match options are to run the GVP '030 with its 8MB, plus the 
8MB on my other GVP HC+8 hardcard, or to swap the 50MHz proc onto the 
Derringer with its 16MB, giving me a total of 24MB.  I'm just not all 
that thrilled with the way the Derringer sits on the board.

   Any opinion there?

> Glad to help out there.  I have 15 Toaster cards here collecting dust 
> . . . . .

   Cables?  Later revision?

   Thanks again for the information.  Every Little Bit Helps.  :)

	Doc

---

From: Patrick Finnegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 09:00:01 2003

>    Cables?  Later revision?

The connectors are just standard BNC composite video, like any pro video
editing equipment (that's not old enough to use UHF connectors).  Just go
find yourself BNC->RCA's if you're going to use it with 'consumer' video
equipment, you can get them for probably $20 each ;-) at RadioShack or for
a lot cheaper from anywhere else - including http://www.allcorp.com, one
of my favorite surplus mail-order places.

Pat

---

From: Doc Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 09:24:00 2003

> of my favorite surplus mail-order places.

   Cool.   I've actually never seen one before.  :)

   I disassembled the computer, pulled the system board, and cleaned the 
rubber sludge with isopropyl alcohol and an old soft toothbrush.
   When I got it out in the light, the etching around the battery is 
more ugly than functional.  There is damage, but I think it's mostly 
cosmetic.
   Next order of business, while the parts dry, is to shoot Newtek an 
email and see if they have any documentation for this particular box, 
specifically the cabling arrangements and application of the RGB 
Computer & Video controllers.  And if they're going to want my 
firstborn in trade for info.
   Second order of biz is to mount the system drive in the other A2000 
and commit sacrilege - make a backup.  Snoop around on it in the 
process, of course.
   In a couple of days, I'll install another battery (if I can find one! 
  RatShack here is getting notably allergic to legacy parts.....), put 
it all together, plug it in, and see if any smoke falls out.

> Pat

   BTW, my spellchecker *really* wants you to respell "university"  ;^)

	Doc

---

From: "Gary Dean Hildebrand" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 10:29:00 2003

>   So if I can find docs for that board, I can get output with a standard 
> S-video cable?  Yes. 
> 
> incredibly slow graphics.  Not necessarily.  Most PC gfx cards only shuffle control data, not the actual digital vidio on the ISA buss.  You're not going to get good animation, but the older Targa/Vista boards did wonderful things with still graphics. 
> 

> connector, without any cabling for the Video Toaster, right?  Yep.  Only composite video is input/output on the Toaster BNC jacks.  You'll need a couple composite monitors, one with a loop-through input (two jacks) for the program output. and the other for the preview.  The 1084 will only have the control panel displayed.  Should be an array of wipes, and a 6 input switcher and 'fader' bar to the right of it.  The interface is pretty user-friendly, if you've been around video switcher before. 
> 
> Toaster off eBay, with software, documentation, and cables, for much less. 
> 

> 
>   I wasn't able to resolve www.aminet.org, and it was down last month too. 
>  Know of a working mirror?  There should  be, I do know of one in Germany.  Can't remember the URL though. 
> 
> Derringer with its 16MB, giving me a total of 24MB.  I'm just not all that 
> thrilled with the way the Derringer sits on the board. 
> 
>   Any opinion there?

Well you don't need that much memory for the Toaster.  All video is done on 
the Toaster card itself.  The Toaster just translates the program control 
into what is needed to manipulate the effects etc.  8 Meg would be MORE than 
enough.
>> Glad to help out there.  I have 15 Toaster cards here collecting dust . . 
>> . . .
> 
>   Cables?  Later revision?

I'll have to check the revision -- get back to you later today on that, when 
I dig them out.  One card is still in the factory static bag, never used in 
a machine.  I'm not sure, but one of my Toaster 2k's had a Washburn 
University inventory tag on it, and I think they were surplussed out of 
Washburn U in Topeka.  Seems they had a whole slew of them at one point in 
time, and I got extra parts and stuff, along with some Flyer cards.  The 
Flyer was used with the Toaster to make a true non-linear digital editing 
system.  That needs at least an 030 and 16 Megs RAM to play fairly well.  A 
complete Toaster/Flyer system still commands several thousand bucks used. 
I'm thinking about building one, but I'm in need of three good sized fast 
SCSI drives for video/audio file storage, enough to hold around an hour of 
video. 

Use BNC cables with RG59 (75 ohm) for everything, and stay away from RCA 
phono style plugs.  The BNC's with the twist/ears keeps things together.  
After that is all hooked up then you'll have to time the system, which is 
best done with a dual trace scope.  Also having a good sync generator with a 
blackburst output is highly suggested to feed input #1 for timing purposes.  
You aren't out of the woods yet getting that thing up and running. 

When the Toaster came out a lot of video novices expected a plug and play 
unit, which it isn't.  I think they became old technology when digital video 
cams came out and all editing/effects were done in the digital domain, 
instead of on the NTSC analog signal.  You might contact a local TV station 
or video production house to see if you can rent an engineer (like me!) for 
a few hours to help get you through the tough parts.
>   Thanks again for the information.  Every Little Bit Helps.  :)
Always glad to help.
gh

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:47:01 2003

>    BTW, my spellchecker *really* wants you to respell "university"  ;^)

Would it prefer "unaversity"? (the FBI spelling that led to the naming of
"the unabomber")

---

From: Doc Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 17:28:00 2003

> Would it prefer "unaversity"? (the FBI spelling that led to the naming 

   Links?  That's just too cool to leave alone....

	Doc

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 17:54:00 2003

>    Links?  That's just too cool to leave alone....

Hmmm.  Don't have any good documentation.  The FBI had a press conference
when they first started calling him "the Unabomber", before they knew of
Ted Kaczynski.  In the background was a blackboard, on which the largest
writing was the word "Unaversity".  In a LATER press conference, they
started talking about "university and airline bomber", possibly as a
backpedaling of their previous spelling error.

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 13:11:00 2003

--- Gary Dean Hildebrand <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > incredibly slow graphics.  Not necessarily.  Most PC gfx cards only
> > shuffle control data, not the actual digital vidio on the ISA buss.

Plus, without something like a GG2 Bus+ or an A2088/A2286 BridgeCard, the
AT bus in the Amiga is inert.  The slots are wired to each other and to
power and ground, but nowhere else.

-ethan
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 13:16:01 2003

--- Gary Dean Hildebrand <[email-masked]> wrote:
> You're kinda SOL without a keyboard... The mouse is incompatible as
> well...

If you can't locate a used Amiga mouse, it's possible to rewire a
MicroSoft Bus Mouse - they are electrically, but not physically,
compatible - raw quadrature output, X-PhaseA, X-PhaseB, Y-PhaseA,
Y-PhaseB, Left and Right button.  The only active components are
IR LEDs and phototransistors.  No chips.

There's also instructions out on the web to hack an Atari Trackball
to the Amiga - I've done it with one from a 7800 and from some other
console model (5300?) - unfortunately, my really nice hacked Wico
unit was stolen in 1990 when they got my A500... it was still
compatible with the Atari... I just put an additional DE-9 on the
side, and you just used the right connector, depending on the target.
*Great* for Marble Madness.  :-)

-ethan

---

From: steven <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 16:13:01 2003

I have Amiga 2000 keyboards and mice available.
Who needs what where?!

Steve.

http://oldcomputers.net

---

From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 21:51:01 2003

Well, it is that time again I suppose.  While going through stuff, I'm
taking pictures:

http://technoid.dyndns.org

So far I have the Sparc, the AtariSt, and the Data General MV4000/dc
featured. I think the MV4000 has the prettiest memory board of all time
short of those nifty ruby-rod cores I once saw....

BTW, this website is running on an Atari Mega ST4 running MiNT.

Regards and best wishes all,

Jeff

---

From: Ron Hudson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 00:28:00 2003

> So far I have the Sparc, the AtariSt, and the Data General MV4000/dc

is this the "soul of a new machine" machine?

---

From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 17:56:00 2003

Yes and no.  This machine is also an Eagle but was made a teensy bit
later on.  The original Eagle was a rackmount machine.  All the boards
will interchange though.  Mine came without the 9track drive and with
2mb ram.  I ripped the 9track out of an mv9800? And the ram card as
well.

I got this machine BECAUSE of Tracy Kidder's book.

Regards,

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Ron Hudson
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:26 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Classic Spring Cleaning photos