Subject: RE: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay.

From: "Tillman, Edward" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 10 00:15:01 2003

Hmm...  Doesn't think this is a computer, eh?  Wonder what it *is* then?  It
calculates, and provides a results of those calculations into some kind of
output -- usually on paper.  Actually, there's an even older, wooden
computer that provided a visual output.  What was it?  (Is this OT?  Both
units compute, and are over 10 years old...)

Ed Tillman
Store Automation Tech Support Specialist
  Valero Energy Corporation
San Antonio, Texas, USA
Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048
Email: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:37 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: possibly OT: Enigma Cypher machine on e-bay.

Damm!  Now there's something that you don't see everyday!

   Joe

At 04:45 PM 3/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't think this is a computer but maybe someone would be interested.
>
>ENIGMA  Cypher machine army model:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2162414185

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From: William Donzelli <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 10 11:28:24 2003

> output -- usually on paper.

Calling an Enigma a computer is really stretching the definition. They 
are incredibly simple machines - the internal circuitry consists of not 
much more than a battery, wires, the wheels (fancy rotary switches, 
basically), a plugboard, and a bunch of lightbulbs.

For a previous question - the number of Enigmas in private hands is well 
over 100 units. They are really not all that rare, but the price ($20,000 
is not unusual) is high because of the extreme demand.

It is the U.S. crypto gear that is truely rare...

William Donzelli
[email-masked]

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From: "Hans Franke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 10 11:43:01 2003

> basically), a plugboard, and a bunch of lightbulbs.

Well, as far as it goes, a computer needs to be able to:

a) have a stored (changeable) programm
b) execute instructions conditionaly
c) do a loop
sometimes also cited:
d) a way for input/output

of these basics, the Enigma is only good for the first one,
since the wheels can be seen as the programm, and they where
changeable. None of the other two conditions are met, since
there is no loop and no conditional operations ... well, ok,
one may see the repetive execution of the ecryption programm
as a loop, but then the conditional execution is still missing.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. Mai 2003 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

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From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 10 11:59:00 2003

There's a fellow here on the east coast that actually let me touch his
enigma.  I hesitate to say "play with", no way I wanted to get into a
you-break-t-you-bought-it situation.  I believe he's reachable at the
TCF and at www.w1tp.com
I think he had a $20K pricetag on it BTW

Here's a nice page about enigmas, Dayton and w1tp.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/g5aqk/page8.html

John A.

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From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 10 16:59:00 2003

>It is the U.S. crypto gear that is truely rare...

   Does that include my AN/UYK-20S and UYK-44s?  I'd happily trade them for an Enigma  :-)

   Joe

---

From: Lawrence LeMay <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 10 17:07:00 2003

>    Does that include my AN/UYK-20S and UYK-44s?  I'd happily trade them for an Enigma  :-)

No, I think he means the Navaho Code Talkers. Its rare to find one from WWII
still in mint condition, and even rarer to convince one to stay in a display
case ;)

-Lawrence LeMay