Subject: George Morrow died Wed May 7th 2003

From: Thomas Dzubin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 12:23:00 2003

Some sad news...

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cnet/stories/1000732.htm
and
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9415

Quote:
   "Morrow, who was 69, was a member of the Homebrew Computer Club, many
    of the members of which became instrumental in pushing the concept
    of the personal computer.

    He formed a firm called Microstuf and was responsible for the design
    of the S100 bus."

-------------------
Thomas Dzubin
Calgary, Saskatoon, or Vancouver CANADA

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 12:45:01 2003

>     of the personal computer.
"pushing"?!?  How about "creating".
>     He formed a firm called Microstuf 
Howzbout "Thinker Toys", which later became "Morrow Designs"  (a little
better known than "Microstuf"

> and was responsible for the design
>     of the S100 bus."

SEVERAL people and companies involved.
At the Second West Coast Computer Faire, he and Howard Fullmer, his chief
engineer (also dead) presented a paper towards standardizing the bus.

Does ANYBODY have a copy of "Quotations from Chairman Morrow"?

even a xerox? text file?

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 13:17:00 2003

>     He formed a firm called Microstuf and was responsible for the design

This totally sucks and is indeed sad news.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 13:32:00 2003

> Does ANYBODY have a copy of "Quotations from Chairman Morrow"?

Still looking...

> even a xerox? text file?

I'd settle for that.

--

---

From: John Lawson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 14:25:00 2003

> This totally sucks and is indeed sad news.

   Epistomology

   I

 Kick at the rock, Sam Johnson, break your bones:
 But cloudy, cloudy is the stuff of stones.

  II

 We milk the cow of the world, and as we do,
 We whisper in her ear : "You are not true!"

Richard Wilbur

  And what it means is - that even now we begin to lose the great people
who have been at the foundations of the technology that modern
'civilization' is founded upon, and seemingly no one takes notice. They
are silently passing and who knows?  Who cares? What network runs a
'Special: The Passing of a Nerd'

 Yet - if every digital device were to cease working tomorrow - just how
close to the Stone Age do ya think we'd sink?

  George Babbage
  Alan Turing
  John von Neumann
  Grace Hopper
  Howard Aiken
   and on and on...

  I spoke with George Morrow in the early 80s - several times. I worked
(for a short but excruciating time) for a rat-box computer store that sold
Morrow stuff - there were several very serious issues with the
MicroDecision IIs that we sorted out...

  But: O well....

 John

---

From: "Jim Kearney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 15:01:00 2003

> engineer (also dead) presented a paper towards standardizing the bus.

This is a double blow..  not only George but Howard too.  I did some
firmware work for them in the early 80's and always thought of George and
Howard as the models of the kind of engineers I wanted to be.  The
conversation I most remember with them was when we spent a hour with a chair
and a piece of wood trying out ideas for a foot-operated mouse.  This must
have been just after Mouse Systems was showing their optical mouse at the
WWCF.

---

From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 18:17:01 2003

The best I remember seeing on Morrow were interviews in a
series in ?1987 from ?KTEH called "Silicon Valley:Hometown",
"...:Company Town" and so-on.

> ...seemingly no one takes notice. They are silently passing

I wouldn't say it's a total wasteland.
Jon Postel IIRC got mentioned on the front page of the New
York Times.  If you type his name into Yahoo you get 31,000
hits.

My apologies for not mentioning Anita Borg's passing earlier
on this list.  I hadn't met her, but I understand she was of note
in the same circles as Grace Hopper.

In living memory.  It means us, folks.

John A.

---

From: "Chandra Bajpai" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 19:01:00 2003

Crap...died on my birthday too.

For some strange reason I always wanted to meet George Morrow...but
unfortunately that opportunity won't come...I'll have to try to get one
of his systems though.  

Anyone know what he was doing (technology wise) in the 1990's? I thought
I remember him as a commentator on the PBS Computer Chronicles TV
Show...he was pretty good.

I also understand he never got fantastically wealthy off any of his
companies.

-Chandra

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Thomas Dzubin
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 1:22 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: George Morrow died Wed May 7th 2003

Some sad news...

Quote:

-------------------
Thomas Dzubin

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 21:56:00 2003

> unfortunately that opportunity won't come...I'll have to try to get one

I'd been trying to track him down for the past few years to ask him to
speak at the VCF.  He was rather reclusive.

> Show...he was pretty good.

That and, as mentioned in one of the obit. articles posted, he became an
audiophile and was big into early vinyl records.

--

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 23:14:01 2003

> This totally sucks and is indeed sad news.

His death certainly sucks, but the design of the S100 bus doesn't totally
suck.  It has some flaws, and is NOT adequately standardized, but doe not
totally suck.

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 9 23:16:00 2003

> This is a double blow..  not only George but Howard too.  I did some

About 10? years ago, I remember seeing a single paragraph mention of
Howard's death in either Microtimes or Computer Currents.  But that is ALL
that I know about it.  I hadn't seen him for a few years before that.

---

From: "R. D. Davis" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat May 10 22:42:01 2003

> 'Special: The Passing of a Nerd'
[...]

Well said!  One's perceived value to society appears to be inversely
proportional to intellect.  To be of great value to society, one must
think like a lobotomized ape and go around speaking such meaningful
phrases as "duhhh, footbawl!"

> close to the Stone Age do ya think we'd sink?

Considering that a large percentage of the world's population,
including a large percentage U.S. population, still appears to not
even have evolved to the Stone Age yet, it probably wouldn't take long
at all.  Given that a large percentage of politicians still have a
pre-pre-historic mind-set, they won't be of much help. 

-- 
Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: 
All Rights Reserved            an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & 
[email-masked]  410-744-4900  her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org         beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

---

From: "TeoZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat May 10 23:09:00 2003

No one takes notice because modern technology is built on millions of small
advances from little know people just doing their job. Some advances like
the light bulb were invented by multiple people at the same time, first guy
in the patent door gets all the glory. Without electricity the light bulb is
worthless, without an electrical conductor that is insulated electricity is
worthless.. and so on. The fact that people in the field that the deceased
was in know he has passed (or know of him at all) would mean more to the
person then having his name plastered on the TV for .5 seconds in between an
advertisement for coke and newest episode of friends.

If every digital device stopped working tomorrow it would take a few years
to rebuild those devices, and efficencies would drop in quite a bit of
manufacturing. But going back to the stone age will not happen. Dont forget
everything built in the 50's and 60's was built using analog controls along
with relay logic and pneumatics. People went to the moon on simple
technology built using sliderules. Sure we wont have a playstation 2,
digital TV, calculaters, and computers to name a few.. but that isnt the
stone age either. God forbid we might have to get out of our houses and
interact with other people instead of playing with our gadgets all day.

---

From: Bill McDermith <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 01:15:00 2003

TeoZ wrote:

>...snip...snip...snip...
>Dont forget
>with relay logic and pneumatics. 
>
Really... Are you sure? Have any data to back this up?

>People went to the moon on simple
>technology built using sliderules. 
>

Hmmm. In the case of the "went to the moon" at least all the data I 
could find in ten minutes
on the internet show this false (I knew this, but wanted data -- always 
best to do a quick
google before you say something in _this_ forum...) -- the  spacecraft 
had computers (these
are still occasional converstions on this list about the apollo 
 compters) and the ground control
system was one of the largest operating computer systems at the time... 
 From a nasa site:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Ch8-3.html

and plenty more from the same location....

It would also seem pretty clear that most of the aerospace manufacturers 
at the time had large
computer systems in use at that time.

The slide rule comment is a little deceptive -- of course everyone used 
slide rules -- that
was the only choice for scratch computations at the time. It would be a 
little like saying
today that "every computer built in 2003 was done by people using 
handheld calculators";
of course, this is true to the extent that when I need to do a 
calculation, I use a hand-held
calculator... But a lot of other computer tools are also used to build a 
computer in todays
technology... And the same thing was true in the 60s, where structural 
analysis was done
on large computer systems (large capablility at the time, and physically 
large also -- of course,
I don't really need to say that in this forum...)

And, of course, this is at least on topic, as we are really discussing 
classic computers :-)

Bill McDermith

BTW: Is a slide rule considered a "Classic Computer"? Is there still a 
forum around about these?
           I saw that there are still a few sites around selling them....

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 14:20:00 2003

> and plenty more from the same location....

I was working at NASA at the time (GSFC bldg 26, National Space Sciences
Data Center).  We were NOT part of the moon mission, although we
occasionally shared 360-9x access with them.  FORTRAN.  We used punch
cards.  a LOT.  And we used a LOT of tapes.  We used a 360-30 for I/O to a
7094.  And we used selectric terminals with a time-sharing service for
APL.  We used slide rules a bit.  But we had a calculator!  It had a 5?
inch CRT, and was on a typewriter cart, to let a lot of people share it.

In another job (environmental systems analysis) in early 1972, before HP
and TI were out, I used a 4 function "pocket" (BIG pocket!) calculator.
I was listed in contract bids as "head of computer systems", because the
calculator was kept in my desk drawer and because I did some miscellaneous
FORTRAN programming.

> forum around about these?

What IS the definition being applied?  What grounds are being used to
exclude an abacus?  I would guess that there are many that are still in
use for HUNDREDS of years.

BTW: punch cards?  I have heard (unsubstantiated) that there are some
ancient Jacquard punch card looms still in active use.

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 15:23:00 2003

> close to the Stone Age do ya think we'd sink?

How close??   We're THERE!!
To the "average" member of our society, anything more complicated than a
flashlight ("torch" for Brits) is incomprehensible MAGIC.  Hell, most
don't understand a flashlight.
Rebuilding? Without the existing infrastructure (in the wilderness), how
many people would be capable of building/making ANYTHING?  Other than
Tony, could you make a battery? a bulb? Do you really know how to extract
the materials needed from the ground?

Who said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."  ?
Who added "..., or a rigged demonstration" ?   (Hint: doesn't anybody ever
change the SUBJECT line?)

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 15:38:00 2003

> . . . 

A few years?
You might think that you know enough physics to replicate a lot of the
millions of small advances of the industrial age, but do you have what it
takes to move from the stone age to the bronze age? or the iron age?

---

From: Christopher McNabb <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 15:44:01 2003

> the materials needed from the ground?

I can think of two people off the top of my head - Captain Kirk when
fighting the Zorn Captain, and McGuyver in just about any episode.

Seriously, I agree that most people would not survive for long in the
woods.  There are a few of us, though, who happen to relish spending a
few weeks a year in wilderness surviving on our own.  

Given a few basic tools (knife) it would be relatively trivial to make
something like a crystal radio.  You would need to find copper ore (look
for rocks that have a bluish-green tint) and some galena.  You would
then need to light a fire and get it hot enough to smelt the ore to make
copper.  Beat the copper into a long enough wire with a rock, then wind
it into a tuning coil.  Use the piece of galena and the point of your
knife as the diode.  You would also need to find some iron ore to make
an electro-magnet and a thin metal diaphram for use as a speaker.  Easy
as pie. 

-- 
Christopher L McNabb
Operating Systems Analyst         Email: [email-masked]
Virginia Tech                     ICBM:  37.1356N 80.4272N
GMRS: WPSR255                     ARS:   N2UX  Grid Sq: EM97SD

---

From: "Antonio Carlini" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 17:03:00 2003

> flashlight. Rebuilding? Without the existing infrastructure 
> (in the wilderness), how many people would be capable of 
> building/making ANYTHING?  Other than Tony, could you make a 
> battery? a bulb? 

I'd have to think for a bulb. I'd have plenty of time
while growing the spuds for a battery though :-)

> Do you really know how to extract the 
> materials needed from the ground?

The best way is to get someone else to do the digging.

> Who said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is 
> indistinguishable from magic."  ?

That was my thesis, thank you for reading it.
Arthur C Clarke also said it, possibly a little 
earlier (but once I get bulb and battery sorted, I'm
moving straight onto the time machine and the subsequent
law suit :-))

Antonio

-- 

---------------
Antonio Carlini             [email-masked]

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 17:53:01 2003

> while growing the spuds for a battery though :-)

Tungsten filaments would be tough, but carbon works fine for a short
time.

Remember, Edison did not *invent* the lightbulb, he improved it to
the point of practical manufacturability.

-ethan
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 18:12:00 2003

> while growing the spuds for a battery though :-)

A bulb is not so hard.  There are a lot of filaments that would work.  The
hard part is creating one that works well enough.

OK, you can get the voltage that you need by wiring your spuds in series,
and the amperage by multiples in parallel.  For anybody who has ever
ACTUALLY produced electricity with a potato, how many would you need to
light an incandescent flashlight bulb?  and how close to the efficiency of
a commercial bulb can you get with a homemade one?

Will your Maglite have casters?

> moving straight onto the time machine and the subsequent

That will take a lot of spuds.

(The "rigged demonstration" addendum was, of course, by Morrow)

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun May 11 18:41:00 2003

> light an incandescent flashlight bulb?  and how close to the efficiency of

A _lot_...

A couple of years back, HPCC (UK HP user club) had a Newton-themed issue 
in December (Newtonsday == December 25th, of course :-)). As everybody 
knows the story of Newton and the apple, I decided to try to run a 
calculator off a simple cell made from said fruit.

So I stuck a galvanised nail and a piece of copper into an apple. I think
I got about 0.8V and a short-circuit current of 500uA. This was enough to
run a small 4-function LCD calculator... 

But to run a small bulb you'd need 1.5V (so 2 cells in series) and 
perhaps 500mA (so 1000 branches in parallel). So around 2000 apples... I 
guess potatoes are similar.

> a commercial bulb can you get with a homemade one?

My guess is you'd have to run the filament cooler in the home-made bulb 
(lower melting point filament wire, and a poorer vacuum). That would 
reduce the efficiency.

-tony

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun May 11 18:42:00 2003

> many people would be capable of building/making ANYTHING?  Other than

What, you mean I have to extract metals from their ores, make simple hand 
tools, etc? Doesn't sound totally impossible...

> the materials needed from the ground?

Well, I'm glad you have confidence in me :-). I'm not so sure. I think I 
could make something that would develop a voltage, but I susepct it would 
polarise rather quickly... I guess it would depend on just what minerals 
I could obtain....

MInd you, I suspect that many people couldn't make a simple cell even if 
put in a reasonably well-stocked laboratory. That I _know_ I can do....

-tony

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun May 11 18:42:07 2003

> something like a crystal radio.  You would need to find copper ore (look

Assuming you're back in the Stone Age, a crystal receiver is proably not 
the best thing to build. You need to consider the transmitter as well, 
and a crystal set is only really useful if you have a modulated 
transmitter. 

I think I would try to make a coherer (basically a glass (or other 
isulating) tube containing metal filings, not too tightly packed). That 
would work well for receiving the signals from a spark transmitter (I am 
assuming that back in this Stone Age there were no government or 
internation restrictions on the use of such transmitters ;-)).A spark 
transmitter could be made using an induction coil (lots of copper wire 
wound round a bundle of iron wire as the core). 

There is a book entitled 'Harper's Electricity Book for Boys' published 
in 1907. I think it's been reprinted fairly recently. Although not quite 
Stone Age (it assumes you have common hand tools, chemicals, copper wire, 
etc), it does cover making many electical devices, including primary and 
secondary cells, induction coils, coherers, bells, resistors, etc. 

> for rocks that have a bluish-green tint) and some galena.  You would

Many other substances will work as the diode. I believe that in WW2, 
prisoners of war used coke (the fuel, not the drug) for this purpose.

-tony

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun May 11 19:10:01 2003

In message <[email-masked]>, "Fred Ci
>use for HUNDREDS of years.

One of my abaci (abacuses?) is still regularly applied once a month
to balance my checkbook.  It keeps me from getting too rusty.  Of
course, I don't have any that are themselves hundreds of years old,
but the design is still in use.

Brian L. Stuart

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 20:24:00 2003

> an electro-magnet and a thin metal diaphram for use as a speaker.  Easy

Jep, just add electricity and you'll be rockin' out.

--

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 20:29:00 2003

> and a crystal set is only really useful if you have a modulated

Ya know, maybe I'm just pessimistic, but if we suddenly got plunged back
into the stone age, I think we'd be so occupied trying to find some edible
food and fending off the bands of raving marauders and packs of wild
animals that we wouldn't have much time for radio entertainment.

--

---

From: "Merle K. Peirce" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 11 23:51:00 2003

It's just a matter of thinning the quiche herds and tracking down some 
wild Brie.

> animals that we wouldn't have much time for radio entertainment.

M. K. Peirce

Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island 

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
              
              - Ovid

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon May 12 15:34:16 2003

> food and fending off the bands of raving marauders and packs of wild

I would agree. However, the original question was about recreating modern 
technology...

> animals that we wouldn't have much time for radio entertainment.

Err, a coherer is only suitabel for receiving on/off signals at a low 
data rate (it needs to be mechanically reset after each pulse), so it's 
hardly suitable for entertainment-type radio.

-tony