Subject: making disk images

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 19:05:00 2003

Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea hardware?
I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects, but I also
don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it is interesting
and hard-to-replace.  Bonus points if the image is browsable after moving
but it must be able to restore to an identical state from basically the bare
metal.  What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD boot disk with enough software in
the ramdisk to dd an image onto and off of an NFS mount, but before I start
in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution.

Thanks

Bob

---

From: Patrick Finnegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 19:16:00 2003

> in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution.

Uhm, do you mean hard drives?  And on what type of machine?  If they're
SCSI or ATA (IDE), I'd recommend just throwing the drive onto some other
machine, and using that machine to dd it off to a file or another raw
drive.

Or, you might want to just pull the drive and replace it with another one
you feel safe blasting the data to /dev/null...

Pat
--
Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 19:22:00 2003

> in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution.

Hard drives are cheap.  Go down to your local thrift store and buy an old
PC that is still relatively new (i.e. has a decent-sized IDE hard drive)
for $10-$20 and strip the hard drive from it.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

---

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 19:50:00 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Finnegan" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: making disk images

> machine, and using that machine to dd it off to a file or another raw

Well, mostly IDE, but the occasional DBA or SCSI machine.  I suppose I could
pull the drive, but that'd entail firing up another peasea to slurp it off
with.  I figure it's easier to pop in some ne2k clone, and I already have a
good number of GB spinning in other machines where IDE/EIDE/ATA is not an
option.

> you feel safe blasting the data to /dev/null...

Haven't found a cheap, local supply of smaller drives yet.  That, and I'm a
software packrat-- I just can't bring myself to delete it, no matter how old
or crufty it is.

Bob

---

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 19:50:09 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: making disk images

> for $10-$20 and strip the hard drive from it.

Errr, here in O-hi-a the XT clones start at about $50 and go up from there,
more if it has options like a keyboard or monitor.  All those d@mn pig
farmers driving up the prices.  In any case, most/all of the achines were
freebies so I don't want to spend too much on 'em.  Also, what if the parts
box I picked up had a workign install on it?  I'd need to get a parts box to
strip to strip the parts box...  Everyone's got a deep, dark secret.  At
least I don't have to hide in my basement with mine.  Um.  Well.  Ok, but
the point is that I don't *have* to, I'm just there because that's where the
computers are.  ^_^

> Sellam Ismail

Bob

---

From: "Bob Lafleur" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 20:08:00 2003

What about Norton Ghost? It runs under DOS, doesn't require Windows. Can
even back up over make an image over a network or printer port to
another computer. And there is an image file browser that's a Windows
App, don't think there's a DOS-based broweser (but it can browse the
images made by the DOS Ghost program).

   - Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Robert F. Schaefer
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:47 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: making disk images

Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea
hardware? I've got a few on-topic boxes that I want to use for projects,
but I also don't want to blow away the existing software as some of it
is interesting and hard-to-replace.  Bonus points if the image is
browsable after moving but it must be able to restore to an identical
state from basically the bare metal.  What I'm thinking of is a NetBSD
boot disk with enough software in the ramdisk to dd an image onto and
off of an NFS mount, but before I start in on it I was wondering if
anyone else had a solution.

Thanks

Bob

---

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 20:52:00 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Lafleur" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: making disk images

> images made by the DOS Ghost program).

I'll look at it.  I had envisioned something with an IP stack that spoke
NFS, to make things easier on the far end, but a package that does most of
what I want is somewhat more desirable (ATM) than building something myself.
I just can't seem to find all that spare time I had stashed away when I was
younger!

Bob

---

From: Patrick Finnegan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 21:11:00 2003

> in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution.

You might want to check out partimage... which is based on Linux:

http://www.partimage.org/

I've also got a few spare Seagate ST15150 4.3GB narrow SCSI drives, that I
could probably part with for $10 incl shipping to Ohio.  If you're
interested, mail me off-list.  I can also small IDE drives nearly free
from Purdue Salvage and Surplus...  I can collect a few for you if
interested (probably 200MB-1GB, $2ea+shipping)

Pat

---

From: "Jerome H. Fine" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 22:38:00 2003

>"Robert F. Schaefer" wrote:

> in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution.

Jerome Fine replies:

As Bob Lefleur also suggested, I recommend at least Norton Ghost V7.0,
although V6.5 is not bad.  If you are using a Windows compatible file
structure, then Ghost Explorer works with Ghost images in the same
manner as Windows Explorer - although it has a few drawbacks, the
least of which is that when Ghost images are combined, don't expect
all the date information from the file to be preserved.

On the other hand, if the complete compressed Ghost image is less than
the capacity of one CD-R, you can save it for long term archival storage
with ease.  And with a bit less ease if the compressed Ghost image will
be larger since Ghost has the option to "-split=650" which produces as
many files of 650 MBytes are are needed.

I have been using Ghost V7.0 for almost a year with the option
"-FCR=FileName" that creates a CRC file at the same time which
allows the user to verify that the backup has been done correctly
BEFORE the original source image is destroyed when the source
image has a Windows/DOS file structure.

Ghost V7.0 also compresses on the fly at about 2 to 1 without a
great deal of extra time.  On my system, I can do a backup in about
6 minutes of an EIDE drive which holds about 2.2 GBytes of files
and produces a compressed image of about 950 MBytes.  The
recovery takes about 3 minutes.  This is on a 750 MHz Pentium III
although there is an UDMA 100 EIDE controller with a throughput
of about 30 MBytes per second or about 2 GBytes per minute.

Note that although the documentation requires that Ghost V7.0 be
run under DOS, I have run it under Windows 98 SE as long as the
source device is NOT the C: drive.  If the C: drive is being backed
up or restored, then I always BOOT first from the A: floppy.

Also, in this case, my UDMA 100 EIDE controller is NOT compatible
with a CDROM drive when Ghost V7.0 is running, so I always
copy any files that were on a CDROM to a D: or E: drive while
the CDROM device driver is active, then BOOT again without
CDROM support and run Ghost V7.0 with only the C:, D:, and
E: drives active.

For drives with any file structure, Ghost V7.0 can make an exact
copy of the drive and restore every block in the exact same location.
With SCSI drives or drives where the controller does the bad block
mapping, this allows the image to be restored on the same size or
larger drive.  When the bad blocks are handled by the OS, then
the restore must be done on the identical drive if you did not start
with a Windows/DOS file structure.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail
address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk
e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be
obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the
'at' with the four digits of the current year.

---

From: Doc Shipley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 2 23:59:00 2003

> in on it I was wondering if anyone else had a solution.

  Tom's Root/Boot Disk

http://www.toms.net/rb

	Doc

---

From: "Philip Pemberton" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 3 02:05:00 2003

Robert F. Schaefer wrote:
> hardware?
[snip]
> I was
> wondering if anyone else had a solution. 
Norton Ghost in Ghostcast network mode. Oh, and a copy of Ghostcast Server.

Later.
-- 
Phil.
[email-masked]
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon Mar 3 12:44:52 2003

What kind of disk are you talking about?  I use a Minix boot for that
sort of thing because it's quite fast, but it doesn't work with large
images.

Peace...  Sridhar

---

From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 3 13:23:00 2003

On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Robert F. Schaefer wrote:

> > Hard drives are cheap.
They are here, too... under 200MB, anything is about a dollar
or a euro  :)

> Errr, here in O-hi-a the XT clones start at about $50 and go
Damn!  Remind me to stash my suitcases with old hardware next
week, when I fly back to California!  They sell P2/450 machines
(complete machines, not just the mb) for EUR 99 here :)

Regarding a solution: yes, I agree sticking in some network card
and dd'ing it off to an NFS or Samba box makes sense... that is
how I did a lot of that stuff.

A friend of mine (Robert Stockmann) made a toolkit that basically
allows you to do this - its'called the Crash Recovery Kit (CRK),
and its based on Linux.   See www.crashrecovery.org for info,
or email him at [email-masked].  Its also running with
diskettes, so your old peasees dont need to have a CDROM.

Cheers,
	Fred

---

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 3 20:14:00 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: making disk images

> (complete machines, not just the mb) for EUR 99 here :)

It's only in Ohio.  I nearly cry whenever someone from Texas starts talking
about what they picked up off the curb-- it's generally better than the
stuff I can buy around here.  D@mn the Salvation Army and VOA-- they're out
to make a profit around here.

> diskettes, so your old peasees dont need to have a CDROM.

This looks close, I want to try and get it down to a single disk if I can.

Bob

---

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 3 20:21:01 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Pemberton" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: making disk images

> Norton Ghost in Ghostcast network mode. Oh, and a copy of Ghostcast
Server.

A lot of recommendations for Norton Ghost, but alas it doesn't appear run on
the PS/1 (Win 3.1) which is the first machine that I want to back up.  Also,
I'm sure the price isn't going to compare favorably with the non-cost of the
PS/1.

Bob

---

From: "Robert F. Schaefer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 3 20:25:00 2003

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: making disk images

hardware?
> http://www.toms.net/rb

This looks like it might be a winner.  I'm a little nervous about the 1.7MB
format, but WTH.  Oh-- hmmm...  It just occured to me that the PS/1 might
have a 720K floppy.  Bummer, I'll have to check.

Bob

---

From: "Jeffrey S. Worley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 5 22:49:00 2003

Nerves away!.  I've used Tom's RTBT for years.

Regards,

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:23 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: making disk images

hardware?
> http://www.toms.net/rb

This looks like it might be a winner.  I'm a little nervous about the
1.7MB
format, but WTH.  Oh-- hmmm...  It just occured to me that the PS/1
might
have a 720K floppy.  Bummer, I'll have to check.

Bob

---

From: "Douglas Wood" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 14:14:01 2003

Drive Image by PowerQuest.

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
[email-masked]
ICQ#: 143841506

Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC
http://epicis.piclist.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: making disk images

hardware?

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 15:29:00 2003

> > > Anyone know of an easy to make and restore disk images on peasea

<snip>

This thread reminds me that I have been in a low key search for
software to flesh out the soft/hardware that I have for the late
Flagstaff Engineering products.

Anyone have any?  I would really like to hear of it!

						- don

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 21:36:35 2003

Don,

   Somewhere I have (had?) an old IBM AT with a FE 8" drive controller in it. It MAY still have the hard drive in it and it MAY still have the SW installed. I'll try to find it.

   Joe