Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ??

From: "Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:22:37 2003

I have a unique TRS-80 model 3 that I am trying to find some information on.
It has a catalog number of 26-1060, which I haven't been able to find any
references to on the internet. The majority of the Model 3s are 26-1066 (48k
2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system,
which no disk drives.

Have any of you seen one of these before? Why aren't there any references to
this catalog number out there?

I have a feeling this computer was made as a terminal of some sort for the
early "networking" that businesses, and particularly schools, used to do...
but if that's the case, one would think it would be a lot more common.

Just looking for any additional information you might have.....

Sincerely,

CORD G. COSLOR
Archive Software
www.archivesoftware.net

-----
|  Celebrity Direct Entertainment
|  PO Box 247 - Hutchinson, KS - 67504-0247
| (620) 665-8366
| www.CelebrityDirect.net  *  [email-masked]
| AOL IM: CelebDirectEnt

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:29:08 2003

> 2-disk systems). It also has a serial # of 0000365! This is a 32k system,

Interesting.  I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives).

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:31:46 2003

> Interesting.  I have a TRS-80 Model 4 that's like this (no disk drives).

What is so interesting, special, or unique???

You could buy your TRS-80 with drives, or you could buy it without
drives.  You could use it without drives, or you could add your own.
With Radio Shack charging $500 per drive, while the aftermarket was ~$200
per drive, why would anybody NOT put in their own drives?

Same thing with the 5150 PC.

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:32:24 2003

> What is so interesting, special, or unique???

I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives.  This is the only one I've
ever seen without them.

> drives.  You could use it without drives, or you could add your own.

I know.  But still, it's interesting to find one where the original buyer
just could not afford or justify the cost of the drives :)

> per drive, why would anybody NOT put in their own drives?

But to buy it and then not put in drives?  Did they use cassette tapes
forever?  Or did they use it for so little time that they never got around
to installing drives, even after they dropped in price to $200 or less?
This is what is interesting.

> Same thing with the 5150 PC.

Yes, and I have an originally disk-less 5150 as well.

--

---

From: "Hans Franke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:33:04 2003

> I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives.  This is the only one I've

So is this what you call friendship ... I'm deeply hurt by
your attitude of forgetting the M3 and M4 without drives in
my Lager I showed you (together with a DT2) ... or at least
I would if I'd be a woman :)

> just could not afford or justify the cost of the drives :)

So is my theory. In fact, the M3 and M4 I have without drives
are both 16k models, and thus even more supporting that theory.
If one doesent have the money, he'll buyes the cheapest version
possible (16k and no drives) just to enhance it later on. Or to
give up after realizeing that computing isn't for him ... that's
the way my two look like. almost like new.

> This is what is interesting.

Jup, my M3 looks like the original owner did use it with a
cassette drive for a short time (at least according to the
marks on the keyboard) until he put the machine in the attic.

Oh, then there's another way: as Salesman who was able to
convince the original owner that a M3 is exactly what he
needs to start with - maybe he gave him even a free cassette
recorder ...

Another alike thing is the Tandy DT2 - basicly a M4 with a
cover where the disk drives go and a terminal software in
ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12.

Gruss
H.

--
VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/

---

From: Geoff Reed <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:34:03 2003

the 32K, no disk systems were usually used in schools in a network 3 setup

Does anyone have a spare model 4 disk controller floating around?

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:34:23 2003

> I guess the fact that it doesn't have drives.  This is the only one I've

So, if I take the drives back out, and put in block-off plates where the
drives went, then it would make it interesting again?

(Not to worry - Eric has my 3's.  But maybe I'll "restore" some of my
5150s back to 16K/no drive codition)

---

From: "Hans Franke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:34:43 2003

> 5150s back to 16K/no drive codition)

I'd say it converts grumpy ol' Fred into a true pervert ....

:)

But you're right, at least eBay-wise ... if a 'naked' machine is
suddenly more impressive, I'd also take two M3s with one drive each
and convert them to one l@@k r@re no-drive Unit and a regular one
to maximize the profit...

Gruss
H.

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:36:04 2003

> I would if I'd be a woman :)

Please accept my most humble apologies, Herr Franke.  I must have
forgotten.  Surely, I'm an ass.

> ROM. it was ment as Terminal for the M2/M12.

By the way, I found one of those recently.

--

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:36:24 2003

> drives went, then it would make it interesting again?

No, because you did it retroactively.  Maybe it would be a little
interesting because you're Fred, but otherwise, no :)

> 5150s back to 16K/no drive codition)

Indeed, then sell them on eBay for $500!

--

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:54:05 2003

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of Cord G. Coslor - Archive Software
> Sent: 28 June 2003 04:38
> To: [email-masked]; [email-masked];
> [email-masked]; [email-masked];
> [email-masked]
> Subject: rare TRS-80 model 3 ??
>
>

http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandy/trs80iii16k.htm

I think mine is an even lower sn# than that, and it's labelled as a
'Tandy-Matra'. I can do more info if you need it, the machine's easily
reachable.

cheers

--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:54:07 2003

> Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival
> Sent: 28 June 2003 20:38
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: rare TRS-80 model 3 ??
> 

*cough*

*cough*

:)

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:54:19 2003

Hello all, 

I have contributed to the lists on occasion, but now I have a special favor.  I 
don't expect a response given the system, but you never know.  Hope springs 
eternal.  On a regular basis there are requests for this system or that.  For 
reasons from simple curiousity to treasured memories of youth.  Mine is the 
latter.  The first computer I ever saw, way back when in my younger days, on 
the East coast, was the APF Imagination Machine and it has been my dream to own 
one.  It was a simple advertisement in a magazine that caught my eye.  Up until 
then, I had no interest in computers, never gave them a thought.  I remember 
looking at this large, sprawling, two in one system and was enthrawed.  Then I 
saw the price and knew it was out of reach, for back then it was several 
thousand dollars.  It altered the course of my life, like so many of that day 
to pursue computers as an interest and even a career.  The rarer systems I have 
had to let slip by, but this one is an exception.  Its not a rational thing to 
single out a particular computer system yet I do.  I am asking, even begging 
for some assistance in locating one, and would pay quite well for the privelege 
of owning one.  I had nearly forgotten about this until recently when I found 
one.  Despite efforts I missed my chance, so I make a plea, for anyone with any 
information to please email me.  The dual system (computer and game system), 
disk drive, monitor, manuals, literature and brochures, yes I seek it, any and 
all that relate.

Thank you for reading my small missive.  I'm curious, what are your 'first' 
stories, when did you see computers that first time in a way that changed your 
perception of them.  From just a machine to what a great machine?  

If anyone can help, I would appreciate it.

Kurt

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:54:39 2003

> forgotten.  Surely, I'm an ass.

	No additional comment necessary... :P

--
---   Dave Woyciesjes
---   ICQ# 905818

---

From: "Hans Franke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:54:54 2003

> By the way, I found one of those recently.

I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine ....

:(

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:54:57 2003

> I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine ....

I remember.

Out of curiosity, is it command-set compatible with anything?  Have
the ROMs been backed up anywhere so that someone might be able to
experiment with a real M4?

-ethan

(When I was in High School, our "computer lab" consisted of either an
HP or Wang programmable calculator, an M3 and an M4.  I got a grade in
"computer math" by writing a simple database program to help the
teacher track the stats of the wrestling team, and to calculate
grade point averages for grade cards.  Someday, I wouldn't mind
locating an M4, but it would be nice to be able to use it as a dumb
terminal - probably get more power-on hours that way).

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:55:06 2003

> I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine ....

I had to walk all the way across the warehouse of the ACCRC to find it
sitting on a pallet.

:)

--

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:55:14 2003

>I was driveing 500 Miles one way for mine ....

   I passed up six or seven of them when I got my Tandy 6000. They had been
using them as terminals for it.

    Joe

---

From: Jim Battle <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:55:36 2003

[email-masked] wrote:
> the East coast, was the APF Imagination Machine ...

At least you have the pleasure of having driven up the price for the guy 
who won it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2737531463&category=4193&rd=1

They don't show up very often on ebay (not the computer part) and 
certainly the one that just sold was the most complete such system I've 
seen.

In my own limited experience, you can probably get the system you want, 
but the highest leverage way I've found takes these two things:

     1) put up a web page dedicated to the machine.  a good one.
        one that shows you are serious about it and one that supplies
        a lot of interesting information.  one that other people will
        find first when they do a web search.  some day one of those
        people searching will be an owner of such a machine and
        they'll contact you.

     2) patience.  lots of it.  I'm sure right now that feeling of
        needing to own one is overwhelming since you just got so
        close, but you must also realize that you spent the previous
        20 years in bliss after having forgotten about the machine.

It may take two or three years, but it does happen.  The bees do 
eventually find the flowers.

You can also go out and beat the bushes, do frequent google searches 
looking for other owners or people who mentioned owning one in an old 
usenet posting, haunt every goodwill/salvation army, hit lots of yard 
sales, etc, etc.  The best approach is to do all of the above.

I got the idea in my head to locate a wang 2200 four or so years ago. 
It was the machine I first learned to program.  After two years of 
hitting nothing but dead ends and not seeing a single one on ebay or at 
any swap meet, I decided to put up a web site.  Within 6 months I had 
one.  A year later I had a second one.  Oh, another cosmic side effect 
is that within a month of acquiring my first 2200, two showed up on ebay.

Good luck finding that Imagination Machine.

---

From: "Hans Franke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:55:43 2003

More Tandys in the ACCRC?

MINE, ALL MINE ......

:)

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jul 2 19:37:29 2003

> http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tandy/trs80iii16k.htm

I didn't doubt that there were more out there in the world, just that the
one I have is the only one I've ever seen.

Someone, somewhere probably has a garage full of them for no good reason.

--

---

From: Mark Firestone <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jul 2 19:37:33 2003

Frustration, frustration...

I have managed to get simh to work, I've managed to build a working system 
with RSTS/E 9.2,
I've managed to get the DZ device to work and therefore telnet access 
working...

... I even made Super Star Trek run...

...but I can't find FORTRAN II or FORTRAN 77, and I think that is why I 
can't make any version of Dungeon run.

I've scoured the Internet for ages.  All I can find is folk complaining 
about how they can't find this stuff either.

Please help, someone.  I'd really like to get this to work.  Can anyone help?

thanks,

Mark

[---------]
"Mi aparato de discos está roto."

Website:      retrobbs.org
BBS:           telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323
Tradewars:   telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org
[---------]

---

From: Johnny Billquist <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jul 2 19:37:44 2003

> Frustration, frustration...

As usual. :-)

> I've managed to get the DZ device to work and therefore telnet access 

Nice start.

> can't make any version of Dungeon run.

I suspect you mean FORTRAN IV. FORTRAN II is another animal. I don't think
it's available on RSTS/E, but I have it for OS/8, and it's probably not
capable of compiling DUNGEON, no matter how you work with it.

And yes, FORTRAN IV, as well as FORTRAN 77 are layered products. Sold by
Mentec (well, FORTRAN 77 at least). So it's not possible to get them from
anywhere on the net.

Perhaps someone can provide you with binaries?

I might be able to help with RSX binaries, which you might be able to run
under RSTS/E, but this would mean some tricking around as well.

> about how they can't find this stuff either.

And that's the way it will likely be for quite a while, unless someone can
either convince Mentec to give it away, create some hobbyist license, or
if someone could buy it off from Mentec.

> Please help, someone.  I'd really like to get this to work.  Can anyone help?

Very much a maybe...

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

---

From: Martin Scott Goldberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jul 2 19:37:50 2003

>From: Jim Battle <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: APF Imagination Machine
>
>[email-masked] wrote:
>> Hello all, 
>> 

Most certainly.  I wish I would have had the money to bid on that my self.
Usually when they are up there it's just the Imagination Machine component
without the MP1000 or M1000 (MP is the seperately sold game console, M is
the bundled version, as far as I know they are identical).

>        people searching will be an owner of such a machine and

Speaking of which:

http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~gamingmuseum/apfentries/mp1000.php
http://dynamic5.gamespy.com/~gamingmuseum/apfentries/imagination.php

The galleries aren't finished yet, but you should get a general idea.
The site isn't released publicly yet so please don't link to it publicly.
It's part of my site re-design (www.classicgaming.com/gamingmuseum).

>sales, etc, etc.  The best approach is to do all of the above.

Sly DC is a big collector of the Imagination, you might try visiting his
homepage and contacting him:
http://www.chez.com/slydc/

Marty

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Jul 5 15:40:21 2003

> Sent: 01 July 2003 16:21
> Subject: RE: rare TRS-80 model 3 ??
>
> > *cough*
> >

Somewhere, possibly on trash80.org, is a writeup on why this machine came
into being - aside from it being 'cheap' I can't see the point of such a
low-spec machine, particularly since upgrading it wouldn't have been for the
faint-hearted.

Another puzzle is why mine came with a 240V printer when it was a 110V US
machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of
washing machines?

cheers

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jul 6 17:26:01 2003

> Somewhere, possibly on trash80.org, is a writeup on why this machine came
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^

No such URL.

> machine? How common is a 240V circuit over there, apart for the likes of

How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in
the US?  Not very much.

--

---

From: Mail List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Jul 7 19:59:15 2003

> How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in

Might depend on what environment it was designed for. If for home or office
110v would be almost exclusively the norm. If it was designed for an industrial
environment, 220v may have been used sometimes. Plus, so many pieces of
equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v.

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Jul 7 20:08:19 2003

> Sent: 06 July 2003 16:54

I must've dreamt that one.....I'm sure there's a website with trash80 in the
URL but hey ho. Here's a real page with a writeup and a poor picture:

http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/model3info.html

> How common is equipment that runs on 240V besides large appliances sold in

Weird. When I get a spare hour or so I'll have to do some digging; real 240v
PSU, US moulded mains plug on the end of the cable. If it was a sensing
SMPSU I'd have expected it to say 110/240V.

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jul 9 18:49:57 2003

> Behalf Of Mail List
> Sent: 07 July 2003 03:25

It just seems odd that the machine itself was set for 110V whereas its
printer is exclusively 240V:

http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/dmp100.jpg

Of course, I'm only assuming it belonged to the machine because everything
came from the same yard sale - Model 3 with plastic cover, DMP100 printer
with plastic cover, cassette deck and a box of paper.....

cheers

---

From: "Hans Franke" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Jul 9 19:21:19 2003

> equipment were designed to be switchable between 110v and 220v.

Well, maybe keep in Mind that Witchy lives in Britain, and 240 is
there (as for most other parts of the world) the standard voltage.
High power (3 phases) is supposed to be 400 :)

Now, for the question it's rather where did you buy the machine?
Since the Printer is 240 I assume in Europe. In the late 70s a lot
of machines got directly imported and the people used step down
transformers to operate them - Often dealers even managed to sell
these beasts to customers when the original PSU was switchable to
220 and so maxing the profit :)

Gruss
H.

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jul 13 19:41:00 2003

> Behalf Of Hans Franke
> Sent: 08 July 2003 21:30

It came from a yard sale in Cape May, New Jersey.....

> 220 and so maxing the profit :)

That's a possibility I guess; switch the PSU in the machine and step-up for
the printer? We may never know :)