Subject: New to list - with a DG/UX question

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:44:21 2003

Hi All

I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand.

I have been interested in computers for a long time and I'm always 
picking stuff up at thrift shops and junk shops (much to the annoyance 
of my wife) so I thought I ought to learn a little more about what I 
have. My collection, so far, is rather unstructured and not catalogued 
in any way (I am in the process of rectifying this).

My first question to the list may not even qualify for the 10 year age 
regulation (but I hope it does on the interest factor). I have recently 
acquired a Data General Aviion 8500 server (quad processor) and a 
Clariion 2200 (20 disk array). Both units are in great condition coming 
from a local Health Authority ;0)

The Aviion came without any OS or media - my searches have lead to the 
conclusion that this unit will only run DG/UX and nothing else.

Well... a copy of DG/UX 4.0 arrived in the post yesterday and I have 
been trying to get things moving ever since.
Does anyone on the list know if I can boot the OS from CD. My CD drive 
is recognised (ID3) but I get nowhere.

Would copying the CD to tape be a better option?

Any thoughts, ideas, help or sarcastic comments will be received.

Alan

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:44:24 2003

> I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand.

Cool.  What part?  I lived in Christchurch for a few months at a time
a few years back (1996, 1997) and I've been to Wellington to visit
friends.

> ...Data General Aviion 8500 server... and a Clariion 2200...

Well... I'd tend to agree that if this is not technically on-topic,
it should get honorary membership due to its lineage.  Unfortunately,
I can't give you any recommendations on it.  My expertise does not
extend to DG gear.  I'm mostly a DEC and 70s-micro guy.

Good luck and welcome,

-ethan

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:44:45 2003

> I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand.

Welcome !

> of my wife) so I thought I ought to learn a little more about what I 

I think many of us have a problem with wives/girlfriends/boyfriends/
parents who don't understand our love of these fine machines, and wonder 
why they keep on falling over bits of ancient computer :-).

> regulation (but I hope it does on the interest factor). I have recently

AFAIK the 10 year rule has never been strictly enforced here, and is 
really there to stop this list degenerating into another Wintel Problems 
List. Interesting computers, even if not quite 10 years old, are OK :-) 
And this machine certainly sounds interesting!

Alas I can't help you with it -- my only DG machine is an old Nova 1210 
that I litereally pulled from a scrap pile. Alas somebody had got there 
before me and raided the switches/lights board (I guess for the switches 
-- the front panel bezel, etc, was still there). But I did get the CPU 
board, core memory, PSU, rack, and a couple of custom I/O boards.

-tony

---

From: Jeffrey Sharp <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:45:08 2003

> List. Interesting computers, even if not quite 10 years old, are OK :-)

There's always cool factor.  After all, there must be some way to
on-topicize things like Crays, SGIs, modern-yet-anachronistic designs, etc.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:46:04 2003

--- Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]> wrote:
> On Sunday, Apr 6, 2003, at 17:07 Pacific/Auckland, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> >>
> >
> > a few years back (1996, 1997)...
> >
> I'm in Christchurch and have been here for 9 months...

Well great!  I loved Chch.  I stayed there between stints on the Ice
and coming home.

> Apart from the DG Aviion...some SparcStations...the odd Apple, an Epson
> Equity LT-286e laptop... an Atari PC3 yesterday (that looks like it fell
> down the stairs!)

Not bad for just having moved.  My Amiga 4000 comes from Chch.  I 
replied to an ad in whatever they call the newspaper for swapping
stuff (the local one here is called "The Trading Times") - you know,
the thing that was here long before eBay, printed on genuine dead
trees?!?  It came with a 1403(?) monitor that I sold to a mate before
I left; I just shipped home the CPU.  Even with shipping home, I
still got a good deal on the lot.  The downside was that a) it had
a cheap-ass C= PSU that was *not* 220V/110V selectable, and b) it
had the low-end 68EC030 board.

When I got home, I replaced the 68EC030 with a full 68030 (same board;
just swapped the chip) and it ran that way for a while (I needed the
MMU for Enforcer, et al.), until I found a $100 A3640 68040 board
that's in there now.

Oh... the PSU I swapped out for a PeeCee one (the guts anyway).  If
anyone on the list needs an Amiga 4000 220V PSU board, please let me
know.  I migrated the main power harness, but left the disk drive wires
attached.  It would only be useful to someone in a 220V/50Hz country
who has a dead A4000 PSU they need a board for.  You'd have to steal
the motherboard lead from the dead one.  I'm willing to let it go for
1.2 X shipping to list members.

-ethan

---

From: JP Hindin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:46:13 2003

> Well great!  I loved Chch.  I stayed there between stints on the Ice

The great thing about dealing w/computers in NZ is the fact you can call
Sun, or SGI, or Compaq/Digital/HP/who-the-hell-ever and get someone who's
not only willing to waste their time talking to you, but is really
interested in what you're fiddling with.
Now I'll tell you right now - I've never even tried that in the US (Where
I live now), but I've heard it just doesn't happen.

I picked up a set of Sun 4/470s and 4/260s (Which live in an aircraft
hangar in Christchurch, actually) and walked right into Sun that same day
and talked to a fellow in there about them.
He said once I had them reliably booting (I ended getting a replacement
processing card) he'd lend me a CDROM and SunOS boot media, and he'd help
me install the thing fresh -- at the time I had no experience with older
machines, they were my personal "first" collectors item.

Maybe its that small-time thing that does it, maybe I've just been lucky
with the folks I've talked to - or maybe its like that all over the place,
I can't say for sure.

PS. If you're bored and want to oggle my junk, since I can't anymore,
wander over to Wigram Air Force Base (or, what was Wigram AFB) and see if
you can find PJ Hindin Engineering and talk to my old man. You could tell
me if he's treating my Suns/DECs right ;)

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 12:46:25 2003

> a few years back (1996, 1997) and I've been to Wellington to visit
I'm in Christchurch and have been here for 9 months having moved from 
the UK (Kent) prior to that I was living in Venezuela so I'm pleased to 
settle down for a while.

Apart from the DG Aviion (which I appreciate is a little OT) I have 
some SparcStations (1's, 1+'s 2's - again _fairly_ recent, the odd 
Apple, an Epson Equity LT-286e laptop. I got an Atari PC3 yesterday 
(that looks like it fell down the stairs! - but it works) along with a 
box of bits and pieces which I am wading through and I've a whole stack 
of stuff that I haven't even started with yet...

Considering I've had to start from scratch again (my last collection 
was donated to a friend in the UK) I have managed to accumulate quite a 
bit. As I said no real structure so far I'm just seeing what is about 
locally and more often than not taking it home.

Thanks for the welcome

Alan

---

From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 23:41:08 2003

> I am new to the list joining you from New Zealand.

Welcome. I hope you have the patience to endure with the long-winded
off-topic tirades that we seem doomed to repeat endlessly.

> conclusion that this unit will only run DG/UX and nothing else.

If it's an m88k machine, your conclusion is accurate. Folks have been
working on porting NetBSD to the AViiON family, but I doubt it's far
enough along to be anything but frustrating at this point.

> is recognised (ID3) but I get nowhere.

Yes, you can boot the OS from CD. It would be helpful to know what you've
tried, and what error messages the system is generating.

If 4.0 came before 5.4, it may be too old for the 8500, but I'm not sure
that either is the case. It's on CD so it can't be THAT old.

I've only played with stuff in the 5.4R3 era. It's possible that "DG/UX
4.0" is a marketing designation for what would've been 5.4R4, a la the
situation with SunOS 5.7 and Solaris 7.

Another possibility is that the CD you have only contains support for IA32
AViiON systems.

> Would copying the CD to tape be a better option?

No.

ok
bear

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 7 23:42:02 2003

On Tuesday, Apr 8, 2003, at 09:59 Pacific/Auckland, r. 'bear' stricklin  

> enough along to be anything but frustrating at this point.

Yes it is an m88k machine and I have tried the ports of NetBSD and  
OpenBSD both of which have developmental ports (mainly for the mvme88k  
boards). From what I've been told the Aviion has a completely separate  
I/O subsystem for which there is little info available (to quote the  
developer of the current port) - Lucky Me!  :0)

> tried, and what error messages the system is generating.

I have found an archive of DG manuals for the Aviion

http://www-csc.dg.com/csc/custdocsasp/ 
custdocs2.asp?category=014archv.asp

and from here found some info on booting from CD. The system is  
recognising the CD drive and it spins up without any problems (I know  
it works as I have used it on my Sun systems).
Typing "boot sd(ncsc(0,7),3,0)" should boot the install programme. I  
get the very unhelpful "unable to boot file sd(ncsc(0,7),3,0)" error  
message. There is no mention of this error message in the docs so far.
> that either is the case. It's on CD so it can't be THAT old.

Mmm... this is where I come unstuck... I have been searching for a copy  
of DG/UX for about 3 months, contacting many companies and seeing  
nothing on ebay (and local auctions). I eventually found a guy in  
Holland who listed it in his computer/software collection... he very  
kindly sent me a copy... I have no other information.
> Another possibility is that the CD you have only contains support for  

Again, this is a possibility. I have tried to read the CD using both  
Windows and Mac machines and neither recognise any contents so I can't  
glean any info from the CD itself. (I have written back to the guy who  
sent it to try and find out a little more).
>> Would copying the CD to tape be a better option?

Didn't think so...    ;0)