Subject: RE: H89 as serial terminal

From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Mar 28 12:53:39 2003

>From: "Patrick Rigney" <[email-masked]>
>
>> The hardware solution is to disconnect the internal serial cable from the
>> termianl logic PCB (the rearmost vertical PCB in the machine) and replace
>> it with one of the cables that goes to a DB25 connector on the back
>> (these cables are normally connected to the serial port PCB plugged into
>> the computer mainboard, just in front of the terminal logic PCB). The
>> cables have a Molex 0.1" pitch SIL connector on the end, and fortunately,
>> the pinout of all the internal serial connectors (terminal logic PCB,
>> computer 'console port', serial port PCB) is the same.
>
>Ouch...
>
>> The software solution is to write a little program that transfers
>> characters between the computer's console port and one of the other
>> serial ports. This will then make the computer section appear as a
>> transparent link between the terminal and the outside world.
>
>much easier than any of the above... get a copy of MDM712 or similar
>terminal emulation program.  MDM712 comes with a serial port driver for
>H8/89.  Plug your device into the spare serial port on the back of the
>(unopened) machine, and that should do it.  Some '89's have three-port
>serial cards... I don't know which ends up being which or whether MDM712
>lets you choose, all of my '89's are down right now. :-/
>
>Patrick
>

Hi
 Why would you assume that finding and installing some
software would be easier than making up a simple molex adapter
connector. As I recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could
be wrong. That is all of 9 wires to deal with.
Dwight

---

From: "Patrick Rigney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Mar 28 13:00:02 2003

> be wrong. That is all of 9 wires to deal with.

Dwight, you're absolutly right, the software is not always "easy" to find
and get.  Actually, check that... it's really easy to find and get (Google),
it's just not as easy to get onto a Heath-format floppy so you can use it.

On the other hand, I think the software approach has its merits, especially
over the long haul.  Using a terminal emulator is a more permanent solution
(IMHO) than cracking the case and swapping connectors around to reconfigure
the device as a terminal or computer.  And, the terminal logic board
communicates with the CPU board at 9600 baud, so if you want a different
rate for the device you are talking to, the board has to be pulled and
jumpers/switches changed, and then pulled and changed back if you want to
use it as a computer again.  The three-port serial card has software
configurable baud rates.  The hardware approach will also not make it
emulate VT-100, which is part of what Jason had asked.  And since many of
these programs can X/Y/Zmodem, getting other stuff onto the machine from
there forward gets a lot simpler.

While you, I, and others may feel quite comfortable mucking around with the
innards of the beast, perhaps (and I don't know one way or another for sure)
Jason or anyone else who might later read this thread in archives or digests
may be less comfortable or is just working up to it, and so other
alternatives are worth mentioning (IMHO).  Tony's hardware solution is good,
but rerouting even one of those cables may require removal of the CPU and
terminal logic boards, since the interconnect and serial cables are
typically routed around the bottom edge of the two boards and fairly tight
once home.  If you're going to go back and forth between terminal and
computer, maybe that's a bit much in the long run.  Add to this that the
expansion boards and some of the other connectors attached the CPU board are
all unkeyed and thus notoriously easy to (re)install one pin off their
mating connectors, and this little accident can cause the kind of rapid deep
frying on the CPU board that will turn a wonderful H89 into a dumb terminal
permanently.

I'm into risk management and choices.  That's all.  I certainly didn't
intend any offense with my comment.

But since we're into options... to elaborate on your and Tony's path, the
terminal logic board's serial port is easily accessed from the rear of the
machine--remove the lid, and as you face the back of the machine, it's on
your left (you can sometimes read "P404" next to it).  If a cable is the
solution of choice, then Molex directly to a DB-9 or DB-25 (whatever the
device to be connected requires) is the way to go, IMHO.  That way, you can
just open the case, pull the interconnect, connect in its place this new
cable to the target device, and do your thing.  Reverse to undo,
lather-rinse-repeat as needed.  That won't get you VT-100, software
transfer, or other baud rates, but it is quick and dirty.

To that end, P404 on the terminal logic board is a 15-pin connector with 10
pins connected.  For those interested, the pinouts are (from schematic w/no
revision number evident, identified Heath p/n 595-2268/595-2272):

1 - (black)  ground
2 -          no connection
3 - (brown)  TxD
4 -          n/c
5 - (red)    RxD
6 -          n/c
7 - (orange) RTS
8 -          n/c
9 - (yellow) CTS
10 -         n/c
11 - (green) DSR
12 -         n/c
13 - (blue)  ground
14 - (violet) DTR
15 - (grey)  "RLSD/" (whazzat? anybody?)

The black wire (pin 1) is up in this vertical connector.

Patrick

---

From: "Jason J. Gullickson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 31 10:21:19 2003

Hey guys, thanks for all the info.

I would prefer to go the software route (I'd prefer to run CPM and find
a C compiler...) but I'm having a hell of a time tracking down disks for
this thing so in the meantime I'm looking for a hardware hack to make it
useful (or at least make it do something to freak out my fellow
employees as my syslogs scroll across the screen of this beast), so the
hardware solution is what I was looking for (I could have been more
specific).

On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a
compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat,
yeah.

Thanks again!

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:02 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: H89 as serial terminal

>  Why would you assume that finding and installing some software would 
> be easier than making up a simple molex adapter connector. As I 
> recall, it was a 9 pin molex but I could be wrong. That is all of 9 
> wires to deal with. Dwight
>

Dwight, you're absolutly right, the software is not always "easy" to
find and get.  Actually, check that... it's really easy to find and get
(Google), it's just not as easy to get onto a Heath-format floppy so you
can use it.

On the other hand, I think the software approach has its merits,
especially over the long haul.  Using a terminal emulator is a more
permanent solution
(IMHO) than cracking the case and swapping connectors around to
reconfigure the device as a terminal or computer.  And, the terminal
logic board communicates with the CPU board at 9600 baud, so if you want
a different rate for the device you are talking to, the board has to be
pulled and jumpers/switches changed, and then pulled and changed back if
you want to use it as a computer again.  The three-port serial card has
software configurable baud rates.  The hardware approach will also not
make it emulate VT-100, which is part of what Jason had asked.  And
since many of these programs can X/Y/Zmodem, getting other stuff onto
the machine from there forward gets a lot simpler.

While you, I, and others may feel quite comfortable mucking around with
the innards of the beast, perhaps (and I don't know one way or another
for sure) Jason or anyone else who might later read this thread in
archives or digests may be less comfortable or is just working up to it,
and so other alternatives are worth mentioning (IMHO).  Tony's hardware
solution is good, but rerouting even one of those cables may require
removal of the CPU and terminal logic boards, since the interconnect and
serial cables are typically routed around the bottom edge of the two
boards and fairly tight once home.  If you're going to go back and forth
between terminal and computer, maybe that's a bit much in the long run.
Add to this that the expansion boards and some of the other connectors
attached the CPU board are all unkeyed and thus notoriously easy to
(re)install one pin off their mating connectors, and this little
accident can cause the kind of rapid deep frying on the CPU board that
will turn a wonderful H89 into a dumb terminal permanently.

But since we're into options... to elaborate on your and Tony's path,
the terminal logic board's serial port is easily accessed from the rear
of the machine--remove the lid, and as you face the back of the machine,
it's on your left (you can sometimes read "P404" next to it).  If a
cable is the solution of choice, then Molex directly to a DB-9 or DB-25
(whatever the device to be connected requires) is the way to go, IMHO.
That way, you can just open the case, pull the interconnect, connect in
its place this new cable to the target device, and do your thing.
Reverse to undo, lather-rinse-repeat as needed.  That won't get you
VT-100, software transfer, or other baud rates, but it is quick and
dirty.

To that end, P404 on the terminal logic board is a 15-pin connector with
10 pins connected.  For those interested, the pinouts are (from
schematic w/no revision number evident, identified Heath p/n
595-2268/595-2272):

1 - (black)  ground
2 -          no connection
3 - (brown)  TxD
4 -          n/c
5 - (red)    RxD
6 -          n/c
7 - (orange) RTS
8 -          n/c
9 - (yellow) CTS
10 -         n/c
11 - (green) DSR
12 -         n/c
13 - (blue)  ground
14 - (violet) DTR

Patrick

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon Mar 31 19:12:52 2003

> be wrong. That is all of 9 wires to deal with.

IIRC it's easier than that. The pinout of the connectors on the 3-port 
serial card and the pinout of the RS232 connector on the terminal logic 
board are the _same_. So all you have to do is move a complete connector 
from one board to the other -- no wires to swap round, or adapters to 
make up.

-tony

---

From: ben franchuk <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 31 20:24:37 2003

> compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat,
Just finding CP/M is hard.
Check here for CP/M and Tiny C.
http://www.cpm.z80.de/index.html
Ben.

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Mar 31 20:25:05 2003

> compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat,

Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk.  But you are
going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file
transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or
from hard-sectored disks.

There have been several C compilers for CP/M.  Aztec/Manx is probably the
best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C.  Good news!  As of 6 months
ago, BDS C became public domain! :

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote:

>
> Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed
it,
> Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C,
> including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain.
>
> http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc
>
> Check it out!
>
> Rich B.

---

From: Robert Borsuk <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 1 10:06:31 2003

Hi All,
    Can anyone help me identify what machine this keyboard goes to:
http://idisk.mac.com/colourfull_creations/Public/victor.jpg

It's from Victor Business Products. It says Model 703 on the bottom. It 
also has a keyboard cable with an RJ-45 plug on it.

I just acquired it this weekend. I only have the keyboard not the 
machine.

Thanks
Rob

Robert Borsuk - [email-masked]
President
Colourfull Creations
http://www.colourfull.com

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 2 02:05:12 2003

> from hard-sectored disks.

I wish that I could, Fred.  Unfortunately, I do not have a hard
sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am
stumped.
						- don