Subject: HP Amigo command set and HFS disk format

From: "Peter Brown" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri May 2 15:46:10 2003

Hi All,

Looks as though the CS80 / LIF part of my HPIB disk reader/writer is working 
OK now - thanks to those who gave me pointers.

I've come across another HPIB hard disk that that uses the Amigo command set 
(- I think) and contains data in HFS format.

Does anyone have full documentation for these two standards in .pdf format?

Cheers

Peter Brown

_________________________________________________________________
On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 4 01:27:35 2003

Hi Peter,

>(- I think) and contains data in HFS format.

     I'd be surprised if it is Amigo and uses HFS.  What kind of drive is it? I can tell you for certain what kind of command set it uses.

>Does anyone have full documentation for these two standards in .pdf format?

    You asked me about this a few days ago but I've been busy and forgot to reply. I have a document called "HP Flexible Disk Drive Command Set" that I'm pretty sure contains a description of the Amigo command set. It's an appendix to the HP 9114 disk drive service manual. It's 36 pages long. I can send you a copy or I'll send it to Al K. or anyone else that wants to scan it and post it on the web somewhere.

    Joe

---

From: Frank McConnell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun May 4 01:31:49 2003

Joe <[email-masked]> wrote:
>     You asked me about this a few days ago but I've been busy and
> forgot to reply. I have a document called "HP Flexible Disk Drive
> Command Set" that I'm pretty sure contains a description of the
> Amigo command set. It's an appendix to the HP 9114 disk drive
> service manual. It's 36 pages long. I can send you a copy or I'll
> send it to Al K. or anyone else that wants to scan it and post it on
> the web somewhere.

I think Joe sent me a copy of this a while back.  Anyway, I fished it
out of the pile in the living room and fed it to the scanner, with the
result being at <http://www.reanimators.org/tmp/hpfddcs.pdf> (1183KB)
for the time being.

Joe, are you sure this was in the 9114 service manual?  Not the 9121
or 9133?  I'm just thinking it wouldn't make much sense being in an
HP-IL drive manual.

-Frank McConnell

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon May 5 22:11:34 2003

>or 9133?  I'm just thinking it wouldn't make much sense being in an

    After thinking about it, I think you're right. I had forgoteen that I
had borrowed most of this book from a local dealer and copied it. It's
titled "HP's 3 1/2-inch Flexible Disk Drive Service Documentation". This
book seems to be designed to include all of the floppy drive manuals in one
book. It has tabs for several items including the 9114, the command set
docs and one with a manual titled "Section 1, The 3 1/2-inch Disk Drive".
That section covers the bare drive used in most of these drive units.  As I
recall you had to order each section of the manual seaparately and you got
an appropriate tab with each section that you bought. Most sections look
like they were written seaparately so that they could be added into any
appropriate drive manual. I also have sections that I don't have tabs for.
One of them is for the HP 9123, another is for the floppy disk drive
section of the OLD WIDE HP 9133 and another is for the HP 9121 drives.

   FWIW I ordered the 9114 SM from HP and it cost about $50! AND it wasn't
very complete. It had no service info on the bare drive. I think the search
for that is what lead me to the local HP dealer (probably THE last
independent HP dealer.) He didn't have the 9114 docs but wanted them so I
made a copy of them for him and copied everything else that he had in his
book.

   BTW while looking at this manuals while replying to this I found a
dection in the 9114 manual that says that it respondes to the SS-80 and
FILBERT protocalls.  I've heard some people on the HP Museum website say
that Filbert was the code name of the 9114 during developement but it
appears that it's a protocall and not a code name.

  Thanks for scanning and posting the command set docs. That's something
that's been needed for some time.

    Joe

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon May 5 22:11:39 2003

> Joe, are you sure this was in the 9114 service manual?  Not the 9121

The only 9114 service manual I saw was a totally useless thing with no 
schematics, no pinouts, no real info at all.... Needless to say I have my 
own notes on fixing these drives...

I do have an HP manual called something like '3.5" diskette drive service 
manual'. The first section covers the original Sony drives (mostly at a 
board-swapper level :-(). Subsequent sections cover the various units 
this drive was used in (I don't have a section on the 9114, but I guess 
it may have been optional). They include PSU schematics but not much 
more. Finally, there's the useful section, giving the drive command 
set... That's the best bit of the manual.

> or 9133?  I'm just thinking it wouldn't make much sense being in an

I thought the 9114 could use either Amigo (or maybe SS/80) or modified 
filbert protorcol.

-tony

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon May 5 22:11:47 2003

> appears that it's a protocall and not a code name.

As I understand it, the codename for the 9114 was Pompeii. So called 
because it was designed to fit under the Thinkjet printer, codenamed 
Vesuvius. And that code name came from the way the Thinkjet works, by 
boiling the ink -- a bit like a miniture volcano...

The 82161 tape drive was code-named Filbert. The protocol used by that 
drive became known as the Filbert protocol, and was a de-facto standard 
for HPIL mass storage devices. The 9114 uses Modified Filbert Protocol -- 
modified in that it responds to device-dependant commands to report the 
drive's size, etc. For example, the HP71 attempts to use that command to 
determine the size of a mass storage device. If the command it not 
accepted, it assumes the devices is a 82161 with 512 blocks. The HP41 
just asseums that all devices are 512 blocks (!).

This is documented, in part, in the HPIL IDS for the HP71, and in the 
HP75 NOMAS documentation (particularly the bit on MELROM).

-tony