Subject: Re: HP Integral

From: Vassilis Prevelakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Jul 17 15:07:13 2003

In cctalk digest, Vol 1 #684 [email-masked] (Tony Duell) wrote:

> I asusem that ROM daugtherboards are impossible to obtain, but has anyone
> dumped the ROMS from one?
> 
> Any ideas if it's ever possible to find the GPIO and serial interface
> cards for these machines?
> 
> Any software out there on the net for it? I have the normal HP disk set
> (System disk, HP-UX commands (2 disks), Utilities, Diagnostics, Tutor,
> and NP Technical BASIC).
> 
> Anything else I should know about it?

Check Pete Johnson's website dedicated to the IPC
(http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html)

He has practically *all* the software for this machine. The only
bad ting I can say for the site is that the HPUX utilities work
only on big-endian machines. I have written a converter tool
(HPUX filesystem image to tar [1]) that is hopefully platform 
independent, and I will send it to him after I have tried it a bit
to make sure that it is mostly bug free.

[1] so you use it like hpux2tar image-file | tar tvf - 

-----

I think that the daughterboards have standard parts so it should be
possible to create replacements. I have the BASIC sub-daughterboard so
I can send you a dump of the BASIC ROMs if I can find where they are
mapped into the 68K address space.

I have used the IPC to access HP-IL peripherals via the HP-IB port
(using the 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface), and I think it would be
trivial to write a short program to talk with computers over the HP-IL
via the HP-IL serial interface.

There is also a built-in HP-IL interface (to talk to the built-in
ThinkJet), but it is directly connected to the ThinkJet without the
transformers and (anyway) I have not found a way to address the
ThinkJet using IL addressing (rather than the /dev/internal interface).

**vp

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:59:11 2003

> (http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html)

Thanks.. I discovered this site a couple of hours after posting my 
initial question,. and have downloaded most of the freeware disk images. 
I've not tried them yet -- my Integral is currenly in many pieces while I 
investigate the hardware side of things.

> He has practically *all* the software for this machine. The only

Alas much of it (C development stuff, etc) is still HP copyright and 
therefroe can't be distributed. 

> only on big-endian machines. I have written a converter tool

Yes, I noticed that :-(. Or rather, I downloaded them, compiled them 
without problems, but got some odd error messages when I tried to read a 
filesystem image. I guessed it was a bytesexual problem.

> to make sure that it is mostly bug free.

I'd be interested in that, provided it's not _too_ large (doesn't sound 
like it should be) and provided it'll compile on my ancient linux system. 

> I think that the daughterboards have standard parts so it should be

Looking at that site, it appears that the program development ROM was a 
plug-in card that went into a normal expansion slot. Which makes be 
wonder just what did fit inside the ROM cartridge other than the OS ROMs. 
There's certainly space for another board with 4 ROM chips on it, and a 
spare pair of chip select lines (remember the ROMs are in pairs, high 
byte and low byte, so there are only 2 blocks of ROM if you have 4 chips, 
so you only need 2 chip selects).

> possible to create replacements. I have the BASIC sub-daughterboard so

The OS ROM cartridge I have contains 4 531000 ROMs (128K*8) and a 74x21 
AND gate used to produve the RDTAck/ signal. The ROMs are 
mask-programmed, of course. I should be possible to kludge in 128K byte 
EPROMs, though.

> mapped into the 68K address space.

If this is part of the OS ROM cartridge, then I think that entire cartridge 
occupies the first 512k words of the 68K's address space. THE OS ROMs are 
the first 256K words, the daughterboard is the second 256K words. And I 
also think these addresses are not messed about with by the MMU cirucit.

Hang on -- I have another thought that the upper and lower halves of the 
address space are swapped round depending on whether the CPU is in 
supervisor state or not. Certainly after reset, the ROMs must be mapped 
at the lowere end of the address space (so the 68K can find a reset 
vector).

> (using the 82169A HP-IL/HP-IB Interface), and I think it would be

I thought that might work, but haven't tried it yet.

> via the HP-IL serial interface.

2 problems...

(a) I can't believe stnadard software will manage to use an RS232 port 
added in that way

(b) It's supposed to be a portable computer. I don't want to have to 
carry round the  82169, 82164, 82165 (if I want a parallel interface), 
and all the PSU blocks for them....

However, it will be useful to be able to link up IL devices in this way...

What I really need is a GPIO-like port ( a portable machine with at least 
16 and preferebly 32 user I/O lines is something I'd like). There seem to 
be 2 ways to get this 

1) Make an HPIB -> GPIO converter. It doesn't matter if it's not 
compatible with anything else since a user port, almost by definition, is 
driven by my own porgrams. 

2) Make an I/O card for the Integral. I have an aproximation to the bus 
pinout, and I think I know what most of the signals do. But I don't know 
how the 'registers' mentioned in the I/O manual are actually mapped to 
68K addresses (assuming the exist at all, and are not a creation of some 
driver software). 

> ThinkJet), but it is directly connected to the ThinkJet without the

Yes, I found the 1LB3 chip next to the Thinkjet printer chipset. The 
Thinkjet uses the HPIL/HPIB[1] version of the processor.

[1] The HPIB thinkjet (2225A) has an HPIB-HPIL converter at the back 
linked by a short, not transformer coupled, HPIL loop to the Thinkjet CPU.

> ThinkJet using IL addressing (rather than the /dev/internal interface).

What's /dev/internal? My manuals don't mention this (I think) -- as I 
said some of them are pretty lusing...

-tony

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon Jul 21 15:07:58 2003

> therefroe can't be distributed.

How close is it to being considered abandonware by HP?

Peace...  Sridhar

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Jul 21 15:18:50 2003

>How close is it to being considered abandonware by HP?

   I know for a fact that HP dropped support for these many years ago and
literally threw out their remaining software/hardware/manuals/testers. I
think we can safely say that they've abandoned it.

   BTW I have HP-IL cards, serial port cards, a combined serial port and
memory card, Technical BASIC in ROM and even a Diagnostics ROM for the IPC.
I think I have all or nearly all of the docs, software and manuals that
they ever produced for it. And yes, the Tech BASIC ROM is made of standard
parts.

    Joe

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Mon Jul 21 16:20:53 2003

> think we can safely say that they've abandoned it.

THis does _not_ mean it's no longer copyrighted, and I respect the fact 
that the owner of the site mentioned earlier doesn't distribute such 
stuff. Some companies (including I believe HP on one occasion) have been 
unpleasant about such things.

> memory card, Technical BASIC in ROM and even a Diagnostics ROM for the IPC.

I asusme the diagnostic ROM is a cartridge that fits in place of the OS 
ROM cartridge. There's a 6 pin header on the Logic A (CPU + memory) PCB 
that appears to be for connecting to a signature analyser which I assume 
is used with this. There's also that 4 way DIP shunt in the 16 pin socket 
that can be moved to disable the MMU and off-board memory (IIRC), maybe 
that's used for diagnostics.

> I think I have all or nearly all of the docs, software and manuals that

Was there ever a (hardware) technical reference manual?

> they ever produced for it. And yes, the Tech BASIC ROM is made of standard

Is this Tech BASIC ROM a plug-in card that goes into one of the expansion 
slots, or a daughterboard in the OS cartridge, or what?

-tony