Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted...

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 22:15:12 2003

Gents, I have in my posession an Industrial VAX 630.

Seen here...
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes

I was curious, can anyone give  more info on it?

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: "Antonio Carlini" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 22:18:07 2003

> I was curious, can anyone give  more info on it?

Is there much more to say? It's a MicroVAX II in 
a BA213 chassis. Assuming you've listed all the
cards, I don't see any video cards of any description
there at all. I'm not sure what that connector is
hooked up to (and the link doesn't work).

Where is the KVM? The connector looks like one of
the ones from a VAXstation II, but it has to connect
to a QVSS or QDSS to be of much use!

The M9047 is a grant card.

The M9060 is (IIRC) a load board (basically a bunch
of resistors) which allow the LH PSU to come up. (If
either PSU does not turn on, the box stops working).

Overall - a nice box. You can (again, IIRC) get RA7x
drives to live in the top (if you can get the right 
mounts) and then, with a KDA50, you can have a 
nicely configured uVAX II.

Antonio

-- 

---------------
Antonio Carlini             [email-masked]

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From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 20 13:11:13 2003

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of David Woyciesjes
> Sent: 19 March 2003 21:49
> To: ClassicCMP
> Subject: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted...
>
>

From what I remember it's a MicroVAX II in a BA415 chassis, ie VAX3400 style
box but without DSSI; the pix show pretty standard MVII components, though
that 15pin m/f breakout box looks odd. Having said that there's no network
components on the console/cpu cover (the one with the MMJ on it, far right)
so it's possible that's part of the DEQNA and is expecting an AUI cable to
connect to an H4005 or DESTA.
Backplane for the disks along the top looks like standard MVII disks as
well, so unless you can get your hands on a KFQSA with wiring harness I'd
think you're stuck with a set of RD54s.

No doubt someone else has more info than what I can dredge up from memory
though :)

cheers

--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 20 13:13:17 2003

> hooked up to (and the link doesn't work).

	Hmm, gotta fix that. here's the close up picture of the plate that's
hanging out, for KVM...
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-001F.JPG

> to a QVSS or QDSS to be of much use!

	This box was used for designing/testing new insutrial strength
keyboards, mice, trackballs, and joysticks for the VAX equipment...

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: "Antonio Carlini" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 20 13:20:00 2003

> 	Hmm, gotta fix that. here's the close up picture of the 
> plate that's hanging out, for KVM... 
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/MVC-> 001F.JPG

I know what that bulkhead connector is for, but without
a video system to plug it into it's not much more
than just a connector!

From the original pics it looks like it plugs in
somewhere inside - I just don't think that it's
the DEQNA that it plugs into. So where does it
connect (you didn't list any video cards in the
original message).

Antonio

-- 

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---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Mar 21 12:20:41 2003

> connect (you didn't list any video cards in the

	Ahhh, here it is. Stamped in the edge/frame of the card it's connected
to is M7602 YA.

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Mar 21 12:20:59 2003

> that 15pin m/f breakout box looks odd...

	Well, it was probably just a spare part tossed on there. This box was
shipped solely for the purpose of testing specialty keyboard/mouse
hardware.

...and this reply, since they are related...

> a video system to plug it into it's not much more

	Well, I do have in my parts bin, 2 cables that look like they might
work. Both have 3 BNC (RGB) connectors for video, but one has a box on
it, with PS/2 style mouse & keyboard; while the other has only the RJ-?
style DEC keyboard connector.
	I have the monitor from my DEC 3000/400 (3 BNC connectors) and a DEC
VRT17-HA (5 BNC) currently displaying green mono from my VAXStation
3100.
	Would I be safe trying one of those cable/monitor combinations on the
VAX?

> connect (you didn't list any video cards in the

	I'll have to go and take a look to see what the card says...
--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Mar 22 06:48:15 2003

> Sent: 20 March 2003 20:12
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 info wanted...
>
> This box was

Ah, so is there a possibility it was used for testing of DECstation and
VAXstation hardware?

> style DEC keyboard connector.

The early Alphas (as has been discussed here) had a similar cable, complete
with a mylar (?) strip that sat underneath the monitor to keep the
keyboard/mouse box in one place.

> 	Would I be safe trying one of those cable/monitor
> combinations on the VAX?

Personally I wouldn't until I dismantled the VAX to see where the bulkhead
connector went. From its form factor it was obviously designed for a MVII,
so given that thinking it could've been part of an MVII GPX and therefore
would definitely be for a KVM cable; I'd wait until someone gives a definite
answer.

cheers

---

From: "Antonio Carlini" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Mar 23 09:45:36 2003

> 	Ahhh, here it is. Stamped in the edge/frame of the card 
> it's connected to is M7602 YA.

OK - I must have missed that in the original list of
parts. It's a VCB01 (QVSS) - the original (IIRC) Qbus 
graphics module. 
 
You can find plenty of detail about the VCB01 in the
VAXstation II Tech Manual at:

http://208.190.133.201/decimages/moremanuals.htm

Antonio

-- 

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---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:12:10 2003

Well, I hooked my VT420 (9600.8.N.1) to the VAX, and got no reaction on
the terminal. The LED diplay on the CPU card started at F, then flipped
A, and sat there.
	On the CPU card, there are two switches, and I don't know what they do.
I've tried different switch combinations, to no avail...

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dwoyciesjes/Mvc-113f.jpg

	On the left side is a 2 position switch, upper position has a dot
inside a circle, and the lower position has the dot above the circle.
That's the setting it came at. There is also a triangle, pointed down,
inside a circle immediatley below the switch.
	On the right is a 3 position rotary switch.1st position is a little
face type of character, second is an arrow pointing right (this is
selected), and the third is a circle with a T inside of it. There is an
arrowhead on the circle, makes me think it's a looping test setting?

	Can anybody help me out quick to decipher these? I'm trying to get this
booted, to see what's on it, before John picks it up...

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: Kevin Handy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:13:20 2003

>booted, to see what's on it, before John picks it up...
This site has a picture and a short description of the panel.

http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:14:04 2003

> http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html

	Thanks. That does help some. Well, my VAX doesn't have the console baud
rate selection switch. I wonder if my VT is set to the wrong speed, and
that's why I'm not getting anything? I guess I'll start at VT100 mode,
300 for the speed, and 8/None/1 settings. Unless anybody knows what it
probably is...

	On that page, it doesn't mention test A, which is where apparently my
VAX is stopping... Hmmm...

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:14:26 2003

Well, I hooked my Digital BCC17-06 cable (3 BNC, LK401 jack) to the
QVSS patch panel, then to my Digital VRT19-DA (Sony GDM-1960) & Digital
VRT17-HA monitors. The VRT17 clicked like it was trying to do something,
and the VRT19 had lines like the H or V scan rates weren't right. The
keyboard beeped, and the caps light worked, so that's something. During
this, I had the VT420 connected to the CPU console jack, and by fiddling
was able to get some stuff.

	So...

	I figured I'd pull the video card (QVSS, VCB01), to force it to use the
console port. I also moved the DEQNA ethernet and the M9047 (bus
terminator?) cards over to fill the now empty slot. I sort of recall
hearing that it needs to be that way for these beasts?

	Now...

	I can see it performing the normal system test on the terminal (set now
to 9600/8/N/1). I'm getting somewhere, finally. :)
	Back up to the garage to see how far it got... Okay, with the CPU
switches set to normal boot, and halt enabled, It completed all systems
tests, and waited at the dead sargent for me. (Time to find a list of
console commands. Maybe my VAXStation 3100 book may help)
	I've now changed it to halt disabled, to see how far it goes this
time...

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:15:14 2003

The sequence that i use, robotically, is
H<CR>I<CR>U<CR>B<CR>
for: Halt, Init, Unjam, Boot
but the B would probably do it.
I think SHO DEV will work at this point in case the B(oot) dev needs to be
specified explicitly, most likely not needed with a one drive system.

John A.

----- Original Message -----
From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 2:26 PM
Subject: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga

So...

Now...

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:15:36 2003

Well, here's the output when I try to boot the OS on the VAX....

KA630-A.V1.3

Performing normal system tests

7..6..5..4..3..

Tests completed

Loading system software

2..
?4C   DEVINACT, DUA0
?06   HLT INST
      PC = 00000EE6

Failure.

	I can hear the HDD spin up when I power it on. Hmmm... Maybe the drive
decided to retire, since it was sitting for a while unused?

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: Kevin Handy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:16:19 2003

>hearing that it needs to be that way for these beasts?

This might be of more help then.

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 26 06:18:11 2003

--- David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I also moved the DEQNA ethernet and the M9047 (bus terminator?) cards
> over to fill the now empty slot. I sort of recall hearing that it
> needs to be that way for these beasts?

Bus Grant.  Unlike ISA and PCI-type machines, the Unibus and Qbus
peripherals generate requests by breaking a chain of signals that
go from slot to slot.  If you look closely (or not so closely ;-)
at your M9047, you'll see that there are no active or passive
components on it - just a few backplane pins jumpered together.
A peripheral card that wants to make an interrupt (or DMA) request
will normally have those pins electrically "jumpered" and will
"disconnect" them to initiate the request.  This has the intentional
side-effect that cards further away from the CPU can each make their
own requests on the same line, but will never be noticed until the
closer card has reconnected the signal.

Unibus and Qbus machines do not run out of IRQs like ISA machines.
They run out of physical slots to stuff boards into, or, in rare
cases, the bus gets electrically overloaded with too many cards 
for the signals to propagate without too much noise (look up DC
and AC Bus Loading in the literature).

For a real-world example, we had our primary VAX-11/750 (.8 VUPS,
*roughly* equivalent to the same integer horsepower as a Mac SE,
an Amiga 1000 or a Sega Genesis) with MASSBUS disk (SI9900), MASSBUS tape
(TU78) and a single Unibus with 3 Emulex 16-port serial boards, a 56Kbps
DDCMP link (DMR-11?), a UDA-50 with one or two RA81s, an RX50 (RUX50), an
RL02 (RL11), a TU80 (TS11), 6 COMBOARDs (68000-based DMA protocol engines
with a sync serial port and line printer port), and a DMF-32 (8 serial,
a sync serial (DDCMP) and a line printer).  If I've remembered everthing
that was on there, that makes at least 20 interrupt vectors in use.  Plenty
to spare.

Very nice cards to have.  I wish when we were making grant cards, that
we had put pins in both Qbus and Unibus locations on the fingers so we
could move jumpers to select what kind of bus to grant.  We supplied
a GC747 (our number) grant card with every Unibus COMBOARD, but never
did with any Qbus COMBOARD.  :-(

-ethan

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:34:00 2003

> Sent: 25 March 2003 16:02

I'm sure 'a' is either 'looking for boot device' or 'language selection' but
I could be wrong. My manual's in the garage.

> arrowhead on the circle, makes me think it's a looping test setting?

The circle-and-dot is the halt enable switch; when the dot's in the circle
you can halt the CPU with BREAK on the keyboard and the usual CTRL-P. The
other switch is a mode switch IIRC, the 'face' forces a language select and
the arrow is 'run'. If I get a chance today I'll dig the book out.

cheers

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:39:29 2003

John Allain wrote:
> 
> > Loading system software
> > ?4C   DEVINACT, DUA0
> 
> Do you know that it had software?
> It's easy to erase a whole drive when a company is not sure
> which files are sensitive or not.
> I don't know from my limited knowledge how to distinguish
> from a good+empty drive and a bad drive.
> Perhaps it requires additional diagnostics SW.
> 
> John A.

	Yeah, it did have software. They were testing keyboard and mice on it,
so it must have a minimum GUI on there. And the people at CTI aren't the
type to go deleting files, especially since at the time, they were under
the impression that they would have to return the VAX...

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:39:53 2003

John A.

---

From: "Geoff Roberts" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:42:55 2003

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
To: "CCTalk" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: Industrial VAX 630 booting saga

> > ?4C   DEVINACT, DUA0

That looks more like a hardware issue. 
"Device Inactive"
It's not the message I usually see if I try and boot off a non-system disk.
 
Geoff in Oz

---

From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:43:41 2003

> ?4C   DEVINACT, DUA0

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_1622.html

"Please check existing discussions of the "serpentine" nature of the
  Q-bus module configuration available here in Ask The Wizard such as
  topic (1149), ...
  This could well be a problem with the Q-bus configuration, with the
  disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk
  connection,..."

John A.

---

From: Ethan Dicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:46:23 2003

--- David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]> wrote:
> ...Now I have a call in to the former oweners, to find a
> username/password.

There are instructions in VMS FAQs (among other places) for how to
get into a machine when you have free access to the console.  There
is some variation, but there are some cookbook instructions on how
to do it.

> 	Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) machines to
> comapnaies for testing products, was there a default username/password
> that they usually set?

The canonical defaults are SYSTEM/MANAGER and FIELD/SERVICE.  Some
older machines might have SYSTEST/UETP.  Any of these should have enough
privs to let you twiddle the SYSUAF file (change passwords, add accounts,
etc.)

More recent versions of VMS will not allow you to take a default
SYSTEM password, but you can change it back after the install is
done.

-ethan

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:47:13 2003

>   disk controller (probably an RQDX3 series controller), with the disk

	Well, after looking at that article, and topic 1149, it seems that I've
created a small problem by moving only two of the boards over and not
the rest, when I removed the M7602 QVSS video board.

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:52:36 2003

> the rest, when I removed the M7602 QVSS video board.

	Yep. That appears to be the answer. It's booting now VAX/VMS V5.1 Major
id = 1 Minor id = 0.
	Now it's asking for the date and time, but for the life of me I can't
seem to input a valid answer! Help!?!

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: David Woyciesjes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:53:01 2003

David Woyciesjes wrote:
> 
>         Now it's asking for the date and time, but for the life of me I 
> can't seem to input a valid answer! Help!?!
> 
> --

	Well, finally got that figured out. Now I have a call in to the former
oweners, to find a username/password.
	Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) machines to
comapnaies for testing products, was there a default username/password
that they usually set?

--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818

---

From: "Antonio Carlini" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu Mar 27 12:53:26 2003

> 	Does anybody know, when Digital sent out (loaner) 
> machines to comapnaies for testing products, was there a 
> default username/password that they usually set?

Maybe in the V5.1 timeframe, but I think even by then SYSTEM/MANAGER
and FIELD/FIELD had long gone!

The OpenVMS FAQ seems to be here:
  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_contents.html

Your specific question is here:

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_contents.html

In your case,
	>>> B/1
should get you into SYSGEN.

Then 
	SYSGEN> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"
	SYSGEN> SET UAFALT 1
	SYSGEN> SET WRITES 0
	SYSGEN> CONTINUE
should get you a quick boot into the alternate UAF.
As long as there is *no* alternate UAF (and many systems
don't have one) and no SYSUAF logical set during a minimum
boot (who knows ...) you should then be able to
log in as SYSTEM using any passwords *on the system console only*.

Then you do:
	$ SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM
	$ SET PROC/PRIV=ALL
	$ DEASS /SYS/EXE SYSUAF ! I forget if you need /EXE .. try both
if necessary
	$ MC AUTHORIZE
	UAF> MODIFY SYSTEM/NOPWDEXP/PASS=feefiefoefum
	UAF> EXIT
and now reboot, this time letting it come up
normally.

If there is an alternate UAF file, or SYSUAF gets set even on a
minimal boot, then you need to follow the procedure as specified
in the FAQ (but it's a tad trickier IMHO).

Antonio
 
-- 

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