Subject: Re: Cool little modulator

From: chris <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:21:21 2003

>>Its an RGB -> NTSC modulator for the Apple IIc. It also came with a
>>game/TV switch box, but I don't know if that was originally part of the
>>package, or just a seperate item that was included in the auction.
>
>
>COOL
>I don't know anythng about them, but have been curious for some time. 
>Please report all you know, post picts, play with it, etc.
>
>OTOH maybe I am thinking about the thing for the IIc+

Sellam indicated that he thinks the modulator came with all IIc's, but I 
have to question... Why? The IIc already has a composite video out, so 
why also ship with the modulator.

For that matter... why make the modulator at all?!? If the IIc has 
composite video, why bother with an RGB to composite? Does the IIc+ not 
have the composite?

I would not be surprised if the Computer/TV slide switch shipped with all 
IIc's, much like they shipped with all Atari 2600's. Just a cheap item to 
toss in so people can connect it to their TV set. But including an 
apparently redundant function modulator, that just seems silly.

-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>

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From: "John Allain" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:21:28 2003

> For that matter... why make the modulator at all?!? If the IIc
> has composite video, why bother with an RGB to composite?

Sounds like a build-your-own macTV for people who want to
use their own TV/monitor for the computer.  I have one of these
boxes for VGA->NTSC...  they're inexpensive now.  An RGB to
NTSC converter may more properly be called a "scan converter",
"modulator" is typically the name given to NTSC -> RF over coax.

You can use a scan converter And a modulator together
ComputerRGB -(scan converter)-> NTSC -(modulator)-> TV.

John A.

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From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:23:02 2003

> why also ship with the modulator.

To make it easier to hook into a television.  Trust me on this one.

> I would not be surprised if the Computer/TV slide switch shipped with
> all IIc's, much like they shipped with all Atari 2600's. Just a cheap
> item to toss in so people can connect it to their TV set. But including
> an apparently redundant function modulator, that just seems silly.

Don't make me pull out an original Apple //c Packing List ;)

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:23:11 2003

> "modulator" is typically the name given to NTSC -> RF over coax.

To me, a 'scan converter' has to convert the scanning rates -- say 
between European and USA TV, or between VGA video and TV.

A box which converts TV-rate RGB video to an NTSC composite signal is an 
'NTSC colour enocder', and I susepct is technically (at least in part) a 
modulator [1].

[1] It amplitude- and phase- modulates the 3.58 colour subcarrier for one 
thing...

-tony

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:23:20 2003

> why also ship with the modulator.

I am confused. Composite video is 'baseband' video, right? You either 
connect that to the composite video input on a TV/monitor, or feed it 
into a modulator to turn it into a modulated RF carrier you can connect 
to the aerial (antenna) connection of a TV set.

A modulator doesn't seem to be redundant if you have composite video and 
a live-chassis TV with no video input socket.

-tony

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From: Jim Davis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:23:39 2003

chris wrote:
<Snip>

>> I am thinking about the thing for the IIc+
>>    
>>
>
Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If 
you wanted comp in, you had to buy a "monitor".
Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500.
Jim Davis.

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:24:16 2003

> Most televisions in the late 70's - early 80's came with RF in only. If 

And many of them had a live ('hot') chassis so it was non-trivial to add 
a composite video input...

> Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500.

On the other hand, they still work 20 years later, unlike the modern 
plastic crap I see for sale. 

-tony

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From: Jim Davis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:26:07 2003

>plastic crap I see for sale. 
No kidding, I must have six cheap VCRs in various states of disrepair. 
OT: I still have a 2X sony
clamshell scsi CD rom drive from the early 80's, Still works. Paid 
$300.  I have dozens of broken, cheap
CDROM drives, some less than a year old. Too bad warranty shipping cost 
more then replacement cost.
Jim.

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From: "Geoff Roberts" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Jun 6 14:26:27 2003

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Duell" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Cool little modulator

> a composite video input...

Quite.
 
> > Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500.

Or more.
 
> plastic crap I see for sale. 

I still have a circa 1980 Sony Beta that's 8" high 14" deep and about 18" long
and it weighs a *lot*, however, it still works.  (I saved it from a scrapyard and replaced
the only faulty component - a fuse - some 10 years back.)

Geoff in Oz

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Sat Jun 7 19:26:32 2003

> and it weighs a *lot*, however, it still works.  (I saved it from a scrapyard and replaced

Betamax is _modern_ :-)... I have a pair of 1972-vintage Philips N1500s 
still in working condition (and still, AFAIK, with the original heads -- 
the only things I've had to replace are the belts and one transistor). I 
have some even older Sony reel-to-reel VTRs, but those have had head 
replacements (done the hard way, using betamax head tips on the original 
beam...)

I really must sort out my Philips V2000 machines. It is said they give a 
very good picture, and I must also admit that some of the features, like 
'dynamic track following' with the heads mounted on peizo-actuators, 
appear to the hacker in me :-)

Of course I have the service manuals for all of the above, but then I 
would, right :-)

-tony

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From: Mike Ford <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat Jun 7 19:27:15 2003

>Back then, VCRs weighed 50 lbs and cost around $500.

I still have my RCA XL100 19" color monitor from that era, and have avoided 
rf connections ever since (though less now).

What I am thinking of is rgb for the IIc+, thats a bit more rare.