Subject: Re: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 1 12:05:55 2003

Don,

   I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have Heathkit SW. 

    Joe

At 12:14 PM 4/1/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Don --
>
>Do you have the means to copy such a diskette?  I have a set of the original
>distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was
>good.
>
>Later --
>
>Glen
>0/0
>
>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Jason J. Gullickson wrote:
>> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of CPM and a
>> > > compatible C compiler on hard-sectored disks, that would be greeeaaat,
>> > > yeah.
>> >
>> > Don Maslin can probably help you with the CP/M boot disk.  But you are
>> > going to have to immediately come up with software for serial port file
>> > transfer, since that is the only PRACTICAL way to transfer files to or
>> > from hard-sectored disks.
>>
>> I wish that I could, Fred.  Unfortunately, I do not have a hard
>> sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am
>> stumped.
>>       - don
>>
>> > There have been several C compilers for CP/M.  Aztec/Manx is probably the
>> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C.  Good news!  As of 6 months
>> > ago, BDS C became public domain! :
>> >
>> > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Rich Beaudry wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Don't know how many of you are on comp.os.cpm, but in case you missed
>> > it,
>> > > Leor Zolman has decided to release the full retail package of BDS C,
>> > > including *ALL* source code (compiler as well!) to the Public Domain.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.bdsoft.com/resources.html#bdsc
>> > >
>> > > Check it out!
>> > >
>> > > Rich B.

---

From: Tom Uban <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 2 01:55:00 2003

According to my H89 manual, it takes 10 sector disks. I have had my H89
for a while, but I haven't been able to locate any software for it yet.
I bought it at a hamfest and the person that sold it to me claims to have
the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my
breath...

--tom

At 01:09 PM 4/1/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Don,
>
>    I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have 
> both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have Heathkit SW.
>
>     Joe
>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed Apr 2 02:28:00 2003

Don --

Later --

Glen
0/0

---

From: "Erik S. Klein" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 2 03:14:31 2003

There is an ePay seller
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=info@
dynacompsoftware.com) who often has auctions for NorthStar software on
10 sector 5.25s.

One current auction is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=182&item=36019127
30

Even if you just want the media the price (starting at $10 for 20 disks
w/software) isn't bad.

Erik S. Klein
www.vintage-computer.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Tom Uban
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:42 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: H89 CP/M hard-secored boot diskette

According to my H89 manual, it takes 10 sector disks. I have had my H89
for a while, but I haven't been able to locate any software for it yet.
I bought it at a hamfest and the person that sold it to me claims to
have
the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my
breath...

--tom

At 01:09 PM 4/1/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> >> > > On that note, if any of you know where I could find a copy of
CPM 
> and a
> >> > best, but the most popular was Zolman's BDS C.  Good news!  As of
6 
> months

---

From: "Patrick Rigney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 2 03:26:10 2003

> the software and that they will send it to me, but I'm not holding my

Tom, Tony,  et al,

Maybe I can be of some help to a few people here.  I have a
recently-acquired soft sector controller and some other spare parts.  I have
no idea if the soft sectored controller works, because I just got it and
have yet to plug it in.  All of the software I do have is hard-sector
HDOS... no CP/M whatsoever.  I thought I had it, but apparently I don't,
unless I missed a box.  I have already contacted Don Maslin off list to
request a soft-sectored Magnolia CP/M boot disk, and check my thinking
here... it should be possible to create a bootable hard sector disk from the
bootable soft sectored one by installing both controllers.  Unless I'm
missing something, that seems like a no-brainer.  If that is in fact
possible, I will be happy to share the benefits of that (small) labor with
those in need.

One unfortunate rub since my earlier discussion in this thread with Tony...
last night I pulled my reference machine out of storage and powered it up,
and it almost boots.  Almost.  A working machine went into storage six
months ago, but what has emerged seems to take a (hard sector) disk read
error on every modulo-10 numbered sector starting at 40 (that's sector, not
track), with any diskette I use.  No problem with any other sectors, just
40, 50, 60, etc.  I have to diag and solve this problem first, obviously.
Disk rotation speed is good (between 177 and 200), so any pointers any of
you may have may help me save time dinking around.  I have both spare drives
and controllers, but all are in unknown states at this point.  Timing wise,
once that's fixed, I will need to have received the disk from Don, and see
if the soft-sectored controller is working at all, and diagnose THAT if not.
And THEN we'll be in business.

For those of you who would like either the bootable HDOS (hard sector) or
the bootable CP/M (hard sector) when this gets sorted out, please reply to
me OFF LIST.  I'm hoping the hard sector drive problem is trivial.  I also
found a bootable/standalone HDOS diskette with a comm program on it, so
those that don't specifically need CP/M could use this, if you like.

Ideas on the disk issue?

Patrick

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Wed Apr 2 03:26:38 2003

> HDOS... no CP/M whatsoever.  I thought I had it, but apparently I don't,

IIRC I haev HDOS on hard-sectored disks and CP/M on soft-sectored disks...

> missing something, that seems like a no-brainer.  If that is in fact

Yes, that should work.

> track), with any diskette I use.  No problem with any other sectors, just

Very odd... 

You might try checkking the index monostables on the hard sector
controller (they only really do anything once per track, when the index
hole between the sector holes comes round), but I can't see why it would
then work for the first 4 cylinders. 

I am really digging into the depths of my memory here, but IIRC there's 
some RAM on the main CPU board used as a sector buffer, and it's 2114s. I 
might well be thinking of some other machine though. If there _are_ 2114s 
for this, then check them. As you know by now, 2114s are know for their 
unreliablitiy...

-tony

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 2 03:26:54 2003

> distribution diskettes here, and last time I checked the boot diskette was

Glen, my fingers got a bit ahead of the facts, I fear.  I had
thought that UniForm in conjunction with their MatchPoint card was
capable of reading the H89 hard sector format.  That is not correct.
But it may be possible using my N* Horizon to duplicate the H89
disk.  Not sure.
						- don
> > sectored boot disk for the H89 to make a copy from so I am

<snip>

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 2 03:26:56 2003

>    I think I have some hard sectored disks if you need any. IIRC I have both 10 and 16 sectored ones. FWIW I don't think any have

Thanks, Joe, at present I am fairly comfortable in the 10-sector
world, and just the other day picked up a couple still sealed
boxes of 3M 16-sector disks.  Who'd 'a thunk it?

<snip>

---

From: "Patrick Rigney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Apr 4 12:10:07 2003

> [Tony wrote:]

Well, as it turned out, the stepper motor on the drive was locking up.  The
further towards the inner tracks it got, the more it struggled, and it
wasn't close to correctly centering over any track beyond the first few.
I'll mess with that later.  I was able to replace the drive with a spare,
and I'm again up and running.  I produced several good test boot disks, BUT,
I don't know how well that new drive is aligned, it's straight off the shelf
from the As-Is room at Wierd Stuff.  Rotation speed is spot-on according to
the internal diag, but I don't have a 5.25" alignment disk to check it
otherwise.  Anyone who receives a boot disk from me is, therefore, going to
be my "canary in the mine." :-)

Next task... get the soft-sectored controller running.  Unfortunately I have
no docs for this whatsoever, not even a schematic.  I understand that it
requires MTR-90, and possibly a certain HDOS software distribution as well.
Does anyone know?

Patrick

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Apr 4 12:17:45 2003

> wasn't close to correctly centering over any track beyond the first few.

You might want to check and/or clean the guide rails for the head
assembly to assure that they slide with little effort, if you have
not done so already.  I have seen similar problems a number of
times as a result of 'sticky' rails.
						- don

---

From: "Wayne M. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Apr 4 12:18:03 2003

> Next task... get the soft-sectored controller running.  
> Unfortunately I have no docs for this whatsoever, not even a 
> schematic.  I understand that it requires MTR-90, and 
> possibly a certain HDOS software distribution as well. Does 
> anyone know?
> 
> Patrick
> 
MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board.  My MTR-90 manual indicates
that DIP switch SW501, located on the lower right of the CPU logic
circuit board (consisting of eight jumpers, 0-7) should be set as
follows:

Jumpers 0 and 1 (port 07CH [174Q])

00	Hard Sectored 5.25 disk
01	H/Z-47
10	H/Z-67 hard disk/floppy
11	No device

Jumpers 2 and 3 (port 078H  [170Q])

00	Soft sectored 5.25 disk
01	H/Z-47
10	H/Z-67 Winchester disk/floppy
11	No device

Jumper 4

0	Primary boot from 07CH
1	Primary boot from 078H

It certainly seems as if you can run both controllers in one machine.

I have the manual for the Z-89-37 double-density disk controller, which
is the one I believe you need.  I also have manuals for the H-17-1 (48
TPI) and H-17-5 (96 TPI) FDDs.  They're all short so let me know what
you need.  The controller manual says that you need either HDOS version
2.0 (with update HOS-5-UP) or CP/M version 2.2.03 or higher.

-W

---

From: "Patrick Rigney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri Apr 4 12:28:00 2003

> MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board.  My MTR-90 manual indicates

Wayne, oh yeah, that I know.  But there seem to be several revisions at
work.  I have two (currently dead) '89s that both have part number 444-62 at
U518, which I understand from another enthusiast is MTR-89, and will not
support the H-37 controller (or at least, it will not boot from it).  My
working machine, however, has 444-142, which is apparently MTR-90 and OK for
that controller.  I've also been warned by this person that I can burn my
own copies of 444-142 for those other machines, but I have to watch the
voltage settings (jumpers) for the EPROM socket *very* carefully.

> They're all short so let me know what
> you need.

Thanks for the jumper positions, that's a huge help.  I'll contact you
off-list regarding the docs.  A further question if you know: the H-17 seems
to require the right-most "slot" on the CPU board (different signals from
the other two).  The serial card is in the middle slot, so I assume the H-37
can go into the left slot?  Also, my H-37 card has a ribbon cable coming off
at "P5" on the board and terminating in a DIP header, which I assume
connects to the CPU board, but where, and does something else get pulled to
make room for it (like the 64K memory expansion hack)?

> The controller manual says that you need either HDOS version

I have HDOS 2.0, but I'll have to scrounge to see if I have that update.
Thanks (very much) to Don Maslin, I have a CP/M, will need to check the
version.

Thanks for the assist!
Patrick

---

From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Date: Fri Apr 4 12:37:27 2003

> MTR-90 is in the ROM on the 89's CPU board.  My MTR-90 manual indicates

[...]

> It certainly seems as if you can run both controllers in one machine.

You most certainly can. My Z90 (essentially the same machine -- AFAIK the 
differences are that it came fully assembled ('Z', not 'H'), and came 
with 64K RAM, has MTR-90, the hard sector controller and the 
double-density soft sector controller. The former is cabled to the single 
built-in drive, the latter to an external drive box.

It will boot either HDOS or CP/M, and can use both types of disks

-tony