Subject: Re: Subject: new finds

From: "Musicman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Mar 18 19:22:37 2003

Wow! You are complaining about receiving 'donations'? I'd love to have a
PDP-11 or an old VAX or even old Commodore equip. donated to me!
Would make a great project and display at work in our data center!

dww

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:00 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: cctech digest, Vol 1 #425 - 17 msgs

Send cctech mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Jupiter Ace (ben franchuk)
   2. Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' (Owen Robertson)
   3. HP9830 keyboard (Tony Duell)
   4. RE: Jupiter Ace (Dwight K. Elvey)
   5. Re: Penske is our friend! (William Donzelli)
   6. Re: No, it's an H/Z89  was: Re: Z-100 find ? (Tony Duell)
   7. Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration (Tony Duell)
   8. Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration (Tony Duell)
   9. Re: Jupiter Ace (Tony Duell)
  10. Re: Trouble with ASR33 (Tony Duell)
  11. Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration)
(J.C.Wren)
  12. Re: Manual "Practical Microprocessors"  HP 5036A Monitor ROM (Stuart
Johnson)
  13. Re: Soldering Irons Metcal (Glen S)
  14. Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' (Megan)
  15. Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage' (William Donzelli)
  16. Workslate (Ron Hudson)
  17. new finds (Jay West)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:23:59 -0700
From: ben franchuk <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Witchy wrote:
> Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo
> 'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none
> of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the
> Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently
> looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though.

What about getting a cheap 32 ohm headphone , and use the speaker off that?
Ben.

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:52:37 -0600
Subject: Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage'
From: Owen Robertson <[email-masked]>
To: Classic Computer Mailing List <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

on 3/17/03 2:38 PM, David Betz at [email-masked] wrote:

> I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had
> trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering
> items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write
> off my payment and avoid these offers in the future?

I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for two of the
books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't heard from him
since.

--
Owen Robertson

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Subject: HP9830 keyboard
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:20:01 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I am currently restoring an HP9830. I guess this is a classic computer
(for all it says 'calcualtor' on the nameplate) because it runs BASIC,
and is 30 years old!

Repairing the electronic faults has not been a problem (boards of TTL --
yum...). It now powers up, runs programs, drives the 9866 printer sitting
on top of it, saves/loads to cassette, and so on.

I am now left with the keyboard which has 5 problems :

1) The 'Stop' keycap is missing, although the switch is complete and
undamaged

2) The keycaps need cleaning

3) The power-on lamp on the front of the machine is burnt-out

4) The mains switch is broken

5) The plastic keyboard bezel (surround) was badly broken by the postal
'service'. I have most of the broken bits of plastic

OK, solutions ...

1) My junk box supplied a keycap that will fit (without modifications),
although it's too short and has the wrong label. It'll do for the moment
until I cna find soemthing better (unless anyone here is mad enough to
have stripped a 9830 for parts -- I hope not!)

2) Trivial to put right!

3) This is a wire-ended bulb, running off the 5V line through a 22 ohm
resistor. I can get a 5V 60mA bulb -- as I don't want it to be
particularly bright this should be fine. Does anyone know what the
original bulb was, though.

4) This is more of a problem. The original switch is a DPDT rocker (and
all 6 terminals are used -- the NC contacts connect to a 1M resistor used
to discharge the mains filter when the machine is turned off). It mount
with 2 screws onto the keyboard chassis. There is very little space in
that area too. I don't want to modify the machine more than I have to,
and I can't find a suitable switch in any of the catalogues. HP used the
same switch on many devices in the 1970s -- the 9866 printer has an
identical switch, so do the I/O expander and disk drives for my 9825.
Anybody know of a source (I can provide more details, like dimensions,
etc, if anyone thinks they can help)?. If all else fails, I'll replace
the switch on one of my 9885 drives (where there's a lot more room) and
use the switch removed from that drive in the 9830.

5) Any suggestions as to how to repair this? The plastic will stick with
dichloromethane, but of course it's not very strong. I have heard of a
technique of soaking a piece of cloth in said solvent and sticking it to
the back of the plastic to strengthen it. Anyone ever tried this and have
any tips?

-tony

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:56:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Jupiter Ace
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>From: Witchy <[email-masked]>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
>> Behalf Of Philip Pemberton
>> Sent: 17 March 2003 07:37
>> To: [email-masked]
>> Subject: Jupiter Ace
>>
>>     I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size
>> edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were
>> *apparently* used in some of the Sinclair machines (Spectrum and
ZX-series
>> IIRC).
>
>Can't have been from what I remember; the original Speccy used a piezo
>'speaker', and later ones fed the sound output through the RF line....none
>of my Sinclair machines have that sort of setup, *but* the likes of the
>Oric-1, Camputers Lynx etc all did. Even the Microbees that I'm currently
>looking at have that sort of speaker....not sure if it's 32ohm though.
>
>cheers
>

Hi
 My Jupiter Ace has a small dynamic skeaker. I don't
recall how the graphics was done.
Dwight

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:22:52 -0500 (EST)
From: William Donzelli <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Penske is our friend!
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> HUH???  I own and operate a small business in Orlando, and I can tell you
I'd
> be dead in the water without a State Fictitious Name registration, as well
as
> business licenses for Orange County and the City of Orlando.  Even if
you're
> running it from home, you have to have your papers in order or get fined
out
> of existence . . .

Incorporation and business laws vary state by state. In some states, they
vary county by county.

William Donzelli
[email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: No, it's an H/Z89  was: Re: Z-100 find ?
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:41:10 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> that. You also need to check on the controller board to see if it's set up
> for hard-sectored disc or softsectored ones.

There are several controller boards IIRC, and you can have 2 installed at
the same time. Mu Z90 has the hard-sectored controller (using a USRT
chip) connected to the internal drive and the double-density
soft-sectored controller (using a WD179x chip) connected to the 2
external drives (all 5.25" units). I beleive there was an 8" drive system
and a hard disk.

> The hard sectored (10 sectors) are probably long gone from this world. I

I still have one... Getting the disks is a problem. One day, when I've
got nothing better to do, I am going to modify a junk 5.25" drive by
mounting a punch/die in place of the index sensor and an indexing plate
on the spindle. Then I can punch my own hard-sector holes.

> still have mine and it occasionally gets the dust blown away.
> For those who learned to use a good typewriter this is the best keyboard
ever
> installed on a PC.

I thought it was a fairly standard design, similar to the ones on the
VT100, early TRS-80, HP85, etc.

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:48:32 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Michael Holley wrote:
> [snip]
> > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages.
> > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm
> > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm
> Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think it's high time
for
> me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a nice soldering
> station :-)

Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old Weller TCP,
which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can assure you
that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons.

To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to use a cheap,
totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to save going
back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit.

> I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far too overpowered
for

You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ !

Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller is actually
a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books
recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). The problem with too high a power in a
non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with too little
power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to heat the joint
up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot, causing damage.

Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to an internal
ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean

-tony

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:52:57 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> > when I somehow plugged one of the Molex connectors in backwards, but
> > a local computer club member was able to repair the damage for me at
> > the time.
> If only those kind of clubs still existed... Now, I've got some spare

Indeed. The problem is that classic-computer/hardware hackers are not
grouped close enough together for such a club to be really workable.
You'd really have to meet face-to-face.

Occassionally, we do hardware hacking at HPCC, and I almost always have a
reasonable toolkit with me. I guess that's one of the last clubs where
things do get dismantled and modified -- if I am wrong, and there's
another one in the London (UK) area, then please enlighten me :-)

> cash... I think it's high time to fix the Jupiter Ace. Properly.
> Does anyone have a schematic for a 2114 RAM tester? I think I may have
blew

Put the supect one in the character generator area (and try it in both
positions). The machine will start up with it there, but you'll only get
half of each character recogniseable if it's defective...

-tony

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Jupiter Ace
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:56:07 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Hi all,
>     I'm now starting on the Jupiter Ace again and I've got one really big
> question that's been bugging me for a while. How the heck does the Jupiter
> Ace display *graphics* on-screen? It looks like the chargen is text-only
and

It doesn't!.

You've noticed the problem. All you can do is redefine the characters
(acutally, it's worse than you think -- 1K bytes of RAM is 128 8*8
patterns -- the high bit of the character code is used to invert all the
dots in the pattern IIRC). And 256 chracters is not enough for the entire
screen.

That's why you can't have an arbitrray image on the screen. There was a
Jupiter Cantab untility to allow setting/reseting points, and one of the
error messages was something like 'All characters used' :-)

>     I also need a 32-ohm speaker, circular, about 1 inch in size
> edge-to-edge. Has anyone got a spare for sale? These same speakers were

My obvious thought is that most cheap stereo headphones are 32 Ohm
impdedance, and about that size. How about raiding a pair?

-tony

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: [email-masked] (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: Trouble with ASR33
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:01:07 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> On Sun, 16 Mar 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
>
> > So if the return character is not getting to the rails correctly then
> > firstly it won't punch properly and secondly, it won't be detected by
the
> > approipriate lever in the function unit.
>
> I haven't be able to verify what character is being produced because the
> durn carriage is stuck on the right.  Once I get the carriage returned
> then I can determine what's going on.

Sure you can. In fact the carriage won't help you much anyway because it
onlly really decodes printing characters.

Look at the selector rails. You'll see there are 8 of them (at least
where they connect to the punch), and it's not hard, even without the
manual, to work out which state is a 0 and which is a 1, and what the bit
sequence is. Then you can see how they're set for each character.

Another trick is to use the reader. Open the cover (trivial for you),
hold down the tape sensor, and turn it on. Then hold down various
combinations of the pecker pins and see what happens. If you can get a
friend to help,, you could probably hold down the right combination for a
CR -- and see if the carriage then returns. If it does, then you've got a
keyboard problem, of course.

>
> > So let's get that missing bit back first. Are you running the machine in
> > LOCAL mode (i.e. from its own keyboard to the printer?). If so, the
>
> Yes, LOCAL mode.
>
> > problem could be in the transmitter side (contacts on the keyboard, for
> > example). Or it could be a problem in the RX unit (sticking lever). I
> > think it's safe to assume that the solenoid driver is not the problem
> > here (it's not going to mangle only one bit).
>
> While I can't say I examined it to the point of ruling this out, I didn't
> notice anything wrong with the levers.  However, it is an obvious place to
> start.

Actually, since you're working in local mode, I'd start with the keyboard
and distributor contacts. The former, particularly, are known to give
problems in old machines.

-tony

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "J.C.Wren" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Soldering Irons (was RE: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:51:07 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

	There is only one TRUE soldering iron.  If you're serious about soldering
and surface mount, you want a Metcal.  Don't get the SP-200 series, they're
junk.  Used Metcals can be had on eBay.  Avoid the RFG-30 bases, those are
antiques (and not in a good way).  The MX 500-DS is ideal, as you can use
the 2nd port for either another wand, or the Talon tweezers.

	The tips are cartridge style tips, and hold temperature regulation far
better than a Weller or Hakko (I've used *lots* of different irons in
product environments.  Don't tell me how much you love your Weller or Hakko
until you use a Metcal.  Once you've had, you'd just as soon use a wood
burner as go back).  There are well over 100 different tip styles available,
including specialty tips for removing QFP, SOICs, PLCCs, etc.

	The Talon tweezers are really nice for removing SMT resistors, caps, and
with the right tips, SOICs are easily removed.

	--John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked]
> [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of Tony Duell
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 18:49
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: SWTPC TV Typewriter II restoration
>
>
> > Michael Holley wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > Here are some links to my CT-1024 TV Typewriter II pages.
> > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm
> > > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/Restore/CT1024_Restore.htm
> > Wow. I'm speechless. That is one amazing repair. I think
> it's high time for
> > me to smash my piggy-bank, raid my bank account and buy a
> nice soldering
> > station :-)
>
> Well, I should probably upgrade myself (I still use an old
> Weller TCP,
> which has a not particularly accurate thermostat), but I can
> assure you
> that even that is a lot nicer than most 'hobbyist grade' irons.
>
> To the extent that on the few occasions that I've tried to
> use a cheap,
> totally non-thermonstatically-controller iron recently (to save going
> back to get my Weller), I've had to give up and go and get said unit.
>
>
> > I've just come to the conclusion that my Antex XS is far
> too overpowered for
>
> You probably mean _UNDERPOWERED_ !
>
> Power is not the same as temperature. For example, my Weller
> is actually
> a 45W unit, which sounds rediculously high (after all, many books
> recomend a 15W iron for PCB work). The problem with too high
> a power in a
> non-controlled iron is that it gets too hot. The problem with
> too little
> power (in any type of iron) is that it takes too long to heat
> the joint
> up, thus getting the rest of the PCB and components hot,
> causing damage.
>
> Try soldering (or worse, desoldering) an IC pin connected to
> an internal
> ground plane on a multi-layer PCB and you'll see what I mean
>
> -tony

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Stuart Johnson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Manual "Practical Microprocessors"  HP 5036A Monitor ROM
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:13:42 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen S" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 10:31 PM
Subject: Manual "Practical Microprocessors" HP 5036A Monitor ROM

> By request, you can currently find source code for the HP 5036A Monitor
ROM
> here:
>
> http://home1.gte.net/~gslick/5036a/5036A.HTML
>
> This source code was generated by unassembling the 5036A ROM and then
adding
> the comments, labels, and symbols from the source listing in the manual.
I
> have not had time yet to proof read all of the comments that I manually
> typed into the source from the manual, but I have verified that this
source
> reassebles into binary code that matches the ROM.
>
> Appendex E of the manual contains notes on running the demo programs in
the
> ROM {EHCO, ANDGT, CONV, WTM, SQRL, ORGAN, ROCT, STW, SNAKE}.  When I have
> more time I will try to add that info.
>
> -Glen
>

Glen,

Thanks VERY much. I am surprised you got to this so quickly, and especially
for verifying that the code reassembles into the ROM.

I will look forward to the notes for the demo programs and will continue to
look for a source for the manuals.

Stuart Johnson

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Glen S" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Soldering Irons Metcal
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:34:02 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I picked up a used MX-500S on eBay and later a DS1 to go with it.  I still
need to pick up a compressor some day before I can use the DS1.

What I don't have are any manuals nor can I find any online anywhere and
it's not clear if Metcal or distributors sell copies of the manuals.  It
would be nice to have instructions for the DS1 before I need to use it the
first time.  I don't think I have all of the necessary filters and such.

-Glen

>
>	There is only one TRUE soldering iron.  If you're serious about soldering
>and surface mount, you want a Metcal.  Don't get the SP-200 series, they're
>junk.  Used Metcals can be had on eBay.

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:21:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Megan <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage'
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>> I have only heard from two other people and both of them have had
>> trouble contacting James as well. Has anyone had any luck ordering
>> items from James Willing and/or the Computer Garage? Or shall I write
>> off my payment and avoid these offers in the future?
>
>I don't know, but I sent off a $15 money order weeks ago for two of the
>books he listed for sale here on the list, and I haven't heard from him
>since.

I also sent off some money for a few books from the same list, and
haven't received anything yet.  I have also sent mail and have yet
to receive a response.

					Megan

--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:28:39 -0500 (EST)
From: William Donzelli <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Some more offerings from the 'Garage'
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> I also sent off some money for a few books from the same list, and
> haven't received anything yet.  I have also sent mail and have yet
> to receive a response.

I suppose I should go on record as well (no, I am not trying to crucify
Jim - he is a good guy, just going thru a rough patch right now).

Jim, if you are monitoring the list somehow, we need to talk about that
6800 stuff...

Don't everyone get the wrong idea - the deal never really fully formed...

William Donzelli
[email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:12:31 -0800
Subject: Workslate
From: Ron Hudson <[email-masked]>
To: Classic Computers <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I have a workslate,  workslate pen plotter, Several bits of software on
the minicassettes the workslated uses.

Who wants it?

Whatcha got to trade?

Anybody got a Poly 88 5 board working S100 bus computer?

Atari Portfolio?

Any HP handheld (hp 35, hp 67, hp 97, hp41, hp 71, hp 75)

just because it's not  on the list doesn't mean I am not interested in
it.

Wanna trade?

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Jay West" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: new finds
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:52:18 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Why do I keep getting old PC's donated to me? *sigh* Just received an epson
equity I, if anyone wants it. Also, didn't someone want the Leading Edge
500AT that I got a while back?

Jay West

End of cctech Digest

---

From: "Shannon Hoskins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Mar 18 22:17:21 2003

Who has the PDP11? I am in zip code 95973 and would love to pick it up.
Thank you,
Shannon Hoskins
530/384-2094
[email-masked]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lawson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: new finds

> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Musicman wrote:
>
>  1.)  I have a couple of 11/23 chassis with some cards; you pay shipping
> on about 50 pounds from zip 95971 and one of them is yours.
>
>  2.) There is utterly, absolutely *NO* excuse possible for prepending a
> five-line reply to the entire freakin' digest, man!! You really need to
> figure out how your mail client works, and then learn how to EDIT YOUR
> REPLIES.
>
>   Please!!!
>
>
>
>
> Have Spleen: Will Vent
>
>      John

---

From: Martin Scott Goldberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 02:15:00 2003

I recently acquired some equipment, and don't really need it for my
collection.  So I thought I'd offer it on here, where there's a good
chance someone else may want it.

What looks like an x-term server by Tektronix, called TekXpress model
XP26.

Network Computing Devince Inc. x-term, Display Station Model #NCD88K
(includes mouse and keyboard).

Sparcstation 1 (includes mouse and keyboard).

Marty

---

From: John Lawson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Mar 19 22:07:17 2003

Please!!!

Have Spleen: Will Vent

     John