Subject: Fwd: old hardware help requested

From: John Foust <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:37:47 2003

I don't quite understand what copyright (as opposed to patent law)
has to do with his case, but I thought I'd forward this inquiry...

- John

>From: "Advanced Approach" <[email-masked]>
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: old hardware help requested
>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:51:42 +0800
>
>Dear Mr. Foust:
>
>I am an American living (temporarily) in Hong Kong, I am in a jam here, and
>you might be able to help.  I would appreciate a couple of minutes of your
>time  just enough time to read this.  You may be able to tell me what I
>need to know immediately.
>
>I am a defendant in a lawsuit here.  In the lawsuit against us, the
>Plaintiffs claim that in the early 1990’s they were the first in the world
>to recess a rocker switch. (Actually, they do not use those exact words;
>rather, they claim they own the copyright on a recessed rocker switch.  For
>them to own the copyright, they would have to be the first people in the
>world to put out a product with a recessed switch.)
>
>Of course, their claim is ridiculous, but in court, we have to PROVE it is
>ridiculous -- otherwise, the court will probably accept their claim.  To
>disprove their claim, we simply need to find a product with a recessed
>rocker switch that was on the market before 1990.  (And of course, we need
>to prove that it was on the market before 1990.)
>
>Friends have told me that recessed rocker switches were common on early
>computers, printers, and mainframe terminals.
>
>Copyright here is all about outlook.  Here are two examples of recessed
>rockers switches with the outlook that we need:
>
>The first example:
>http://www.auctionshoppingbot.com/misc/Recessed_Rocker_Switch.html
>
>The above is from a Canon copy machine.
>
>This example shows well all five key elements that we need:
>1) The rocker switch is mounted on a flat surface,
>2) The rocker switch is recessed beneath the surface,
>3) There is flat surface all around the recess,
>4) There is nothing else in the recess with the switch, and
>5) The area of the recess is bigger than the area of the switch but not
>excessively so.
>
>This would be prefect, except the copy machine is only a couple of years
>old  too new to prove that recessed rocker switches were on the market
>before 1990.  (I have contacted Canon, but as a company, it seems they are
>only interested in selling new machines.)
>
>The molded on/off symbols and the indicator light are not important.  We are
>looking for an example product with or without the molded on/off symbols and
>the indicator light  either is fine.  For the switch rocker itself, color
>does not matter  even clear plastic with illumination inside is OK.
>
>The second example:
>http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=115
>http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos.asp?t=1&c=115&st=1
>
>DEC 300 series computer from 1979.  (On the second link, click on the "close
>up".)  This is good, and we might use this.  It would be perfect, except the
>Digital logo is right next to the switch (so this example does not meet key
>element #3).  So for our purpose, this is only half good.
>
>If you know of any product from 1990 or before that had a recessed rocker
>switch that meets all five key elements, please let me know.  As you and
>others you know are knowledgeable about old hardware, any information you
>could provide would be greatly appreciated.
>
>I hope to hear from you.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rick Graves
>Personal [email-masked]
>
>Advanced Approach Ltd.
>1907 Westley Square, 48 Hoi Yuen Road
>Kwun Tong, Kowloon, Hong Kong
>Tel: +852 2372-0197   Fax: +852 2342-7197
>e-mail: [email-masked]

---

From: Ian Primus <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:40:10 2003

I don't know if these will work for you, but...

On the back of my Apple LaserWriter II, introduced in 1988.  
http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/laserwriter_II_switch.jpg
On the back of my AT&T PC 6300, infroduced in 1984  
http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/ATT_PC6300.jpg
On the front of my old Leading Edge PC XT clone, intriduced in 1986   
http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC.jpg   
http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC_switch.jpg.

Ian Primus
[email-masked]

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:42:37 2003

> http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/laserwriter_II_switch.jpg

No good...the power cable receptacle is part of the recess.

> http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/ATT_PC6300.jpg

Probably no good...the recess is "artificial".

> http://bitbucket.no-ip.com/images/leading_edge_PC_switch.jpg.

That one looks good.

-- 

Sellam Ismail                                        Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger                http://www.vintage.org

 * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

---

From: Vintage Computer Festival <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Jun 29 18:42:58 2003

> has to do with his case, but I thought I'd forward this inquiry...

It's a design copyright.  For instance, remember Apple suing other
companies that came out with colorful computer cases after they released
the iMac?

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-227942.html
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,20537,00.html

I don't know what the outcome of those cases is (too lazy to search more).

This one is so banal as to be ridiculous though.  How you can copyright a
specific feature is beyond me.  I thought the American copyright/patent
system was brain-dead...

Maybe Wayne can shed some light?

--

---

From: "Witchy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Jul 1 08:53:50 2003

Looking at the Pro300 series pictures makes me think that most DEC hardware
round that time had recessed rocker switches with (some) clear flat space
round them, eg, VT220, DECmate, Rainbow, MicroVAX and MicroPDP.

MicroVAX 2000: http://www.netbsd.org/images/machines/vax/vaxstation2000.jpg
 and http://www.digidome.nl/images/DecMicroVax2000_1.jpg

MicroVAX II:
http://openvms.compaq.co.jp/history/digital/comp/jpg/microvax2.jpg

My own slightly battered Rainbow:
http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/rainbow-close.jpg

DECmate II:
http://openvms.compaq.co.jp/history/digital/comp/jpg/decmate2.jpg

All very 1980s machines....

Reading the original message further, are we to assume that all the pix I've
pointed out here are no good because there isn't totally flat space all
round the rocker switch? Isn't that completely anal? I'm sure I'm the only
person in the world to be sitting here, now, with a sticker from the
Enterprise Computer factory, my little one's japanese decorative fan and an
Adaptec SCSI interface from an IBM PC next to me, and I can prove it, but
would I sue if someone claimed I wasn't the first?

Oh - wasn't the MicroVAX 3100 released in 1989 or thereabouts? *very*
recessed power switch with clear space all round.....

--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of John Foust
> Sent: 29 June 2003 04:23
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Fwd: old hardware help requested
>
>