Subject: HH drives

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:19:33 2003

Hi All

I have a newbie question <collective groan from list>
I don't have much experience with HH type drives and recently unearthed 
a Wyse Technologies machine at the local refuse recycling centre (it's 
a shop rather than me wading though a landfill site - I'm not that 
desperate).

Inside this machine (stated built in 1986) were two HH type 5.25" hard 
drives (one a Segate ST-251 the other not branded but built 1989).

On boot up I get:
Pheonix 80386 ROM BIOS version 3.53
(c) 1985, 1986 Pheonix Technologies Ltd
640K Base 1408K Extended Memory
Hard Disk Failure

I have booted the system using a floppy and one drive (the unbranded 
one) is partially readable.
It is a 41Mb drive split into two partitions (primary & extended) - 
FAT16 system
It seems to have been installed with DRDOS.
Using my later versions of DOS on floppy I cannot get the drive to 
respond to any standard commands (I always get a 'Sector not found' 
error).
Can anything be done to revive these disks or were they left unparked 
and now physically damaged?

I have another 5.25" hard drive displaying the same unresponsive 
characteristics... are they all dead?

Thanks in advance

Alan

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:21:21 2003

> characteristics... are they all dead?

Have you gone into the BIOS to see what the settings are for the
drives?  Does the clock/calendar work properly?  If not, the
battery may be dead and settings incorrect.

						- don

---

From: Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:22:58 2003

Check the BIOS settings first. I have a program called spinrite that I 
remember using to recover disks. I can't remember everything it can do, 
but I remember that it saved a lot of hard drives for me... let me know 
off line if you would like a copy and I can email it to you.

-Bryan

---

From: Marvin Johnston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:24:35 2003

> 640K Base 1408K Extended Memory

Have you checked the CMOS settings for the correct HD parameters? The
"sector not found" error sounds like the HD is being recognized, and it
is possible that a low level format followed by a high level format
might solve the problems. *My* preference in such cases is to use
Spinrite as it can reformat the drive without losing data ... assuming
the original data is still accessible.

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:26:14 2003

> battery may be dead and settings incorrect.
The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I 
can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
A small victory:   Through persistence I can now read the data in the 
extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads 
sometimes not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously 
wants to be left alone...
Not to be outdone I will try Spinrite.

Another question - is it worth trying to save? Has anyone got any 
information on Wyse Technologies machines?
The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector 
stating it was a 386 server???

Thanks

Alan

---

From: Marvin Johnston <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:27:51 2003

> can read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.

What kind of HD controller is being used, 8 bit or 16 bit? I have seen
XT controllers used in AT machines, and the bios hd settings are then
set at none.

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:31:42 2003

I've used a number of Wyse 286 & 386 machines in the past (as 
servers).  Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program built 
in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one kicking 
about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need it; might also 
have some manuals.)  If the battery went, then you need to set it up again.

They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the one 
closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode.  I also had a lot 
of disc failures in those days.  (I remember one particularly memorable day 
trying to read that one last sector off a dead disc on an old machine, in 
desperation dropping the machine 3", upside down, timed exactly right - and 
it read it!)

Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs - one 
shared between drives, one each per drive.  Floppy drives run from same 
controller.  Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel + 2 serial) 
video, etc.

Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?

regards

Rob.

At 17:49 13/04/2003 +1200, you wrote:

>The BIOS reads date 1980 so the battery may be an issue. Using fdisk I can 
>read the partition table and the attributes of the disk.
>extended partition but it is quite unreliable (sometimes reads sometimes 
>not) - the disk makes a _lot_ of noise and quite obviously wants to be 
>left alone...
>The google thing didn't bring up much other than another collector stating 
>it was a 386 server???
>
>Thanks
>
>Alan

---

From: Joe <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 07:19:54 2003

I don't think it ever went away. I've been visiting his site for years to catch up on the latest (and UNBIASED) info on firewalls, spyware, etc. I use his routinely LeakTest to test my firewall.  Even if you're not intersted in Spinrite, take a look at his site. There's lots of good info on there.

     Joe

At 11:54 PM 4/13/03 -0400, you wrote:
+>Check grc.com for information on SpinRite 5......
>
>It appears that Gibson Research is back...

---

From: Bryan Blackburn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 12:50:51 2003

I have had a number of requests for this so I thought it would be 
easiest to put it up on a web page for anyone interested. If you are 
worried about the copyright, send your money to the address provided in 
the software! ;-)

Spinrite is available for download at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp2/ 
save this file to a bootable floppy and run it from the command prompt. 
It has been at least 10-12 years since I have used it, so I can't 
remember the details. Just read through the menus to see what it can do. 
Good luck!

This link will be available for at least 7 days, but not much longer. 
Download it now if you think you will ever need it!

-Bryan

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 12:51:07 2003

On Sunday, Apr 13, 2003, at 21:50 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell wrote:

> servers).  Early machines did not have a BIOS configuration program 
> built in - you had to boot a setup floppy. (I *might* still have one 
> kicking about somewhere in the old discs at the office, if you need 
> it; might also have some manuals.)  If the battery went, then you need 
> to set it up again.

This machine has no BIOS that I can interrogate (I got the date from 
running scandisk from a later version of MSDOS) - On boot-up (using the 
floppy) it is asking for a Setup Disk (this could be what you mention 
above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy...
>
> They mostly used fixed disc parameters, from which you selected the 
> one closest to your drive, and with no "user definable" mode.  I also 
> had a lot of disc failures in those days.  (I remember one 
> particularly memorable day trying to read that one last sector off a 
> dead disc on an old machine, in desperation dropping the machine 3", 
> upside down, timed exactly right - and it read it!)

Ouch!
>
> Discs were usually st306? Three cables from a controller to the discs 
> - one shared between drives, one each per drive.  Floppy drives run 
> from same controller.  Seperate cards for Parallel+Serial (or parallel 
> + 2 serial) video, etc.

Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears 
to be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It 
also has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the 
machine is in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has 
had a hard life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a 
test bed for other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD 
bays).
> Has yours got that natty (but impractical) LCD display on the front?

Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment 
(it does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this 
might come back to life?
> Rob.
Thanks for the info
Alan

---

From: Don Maslin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon Apr 14 12:52:01 2003

> information on Wyse Technologies machines?

I fear that I cannot shed any light on the subject other than I
have heard of them.  Basically a PC clone, I'd guess.

						- don

---

From: "SYSTEM MANAGER [VAX]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 21:18:04 2003

IIRC, the command "G=c800:5" from witin the dos 'Debug utility will
often launch a low-level format utility from the host adapter's roms....

Regards,

Jeff

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue Apr 15 21:30:59 2003

>above). I don't have this disk so if you can find it I'd like a copy...

OK, I had a rummage around and found a box of discs at the bottom of a 
filing cabinet!  Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with other 
miscellaneous stuff..  All on 5.25".  I've dragged them home, along with a 
suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC I'll read the discs 
and post the relevant files up somewhere.

>Mine has an st-251-1 and an unbranded model installed and there appears to 
>be one controller for both the hard drives and the floppy disks. It also 
>has a 5.25" and a 3.5" floppy drives installed. Internally the machine is 
>in good condition but from the outside it looks as if it has had a hard 
>life. I was trying to get it up and running to use it as a test bed for 
>other MFM controlled disks (as it has two HD bays and 3 FD bays).

they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too...

>Yes! What was that for? It doesn't appear to be working at the moment (it 
>does power up) - I am assuming that once the Setup disk is run this might 
>come back to life?

As far as I remember, it showed the stuff you'd expect to see as LEDs on a 
PC - turbo status, flashing "C" for hard drive access, etc.  I /think/ you 
could get it to show the time, too..

Wyse are still going - http://www.wyse.com.  But they seem to concentrate 
on WinTerms now - even the "discontinued products" pages has newer stuff on 
them than I ever used of theirs!

I have some Wyse serial terminals (WY-120 I think) in a box buried 
somewhere, plus a (XT style) keyboard off a 286 if anybody wants them.

Regards

Rob

---

From: Alan Greenstreet <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 21:24:22 2003

On Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003, at 09:26 Pacific/Auckland, Rob O'Donnell 
wrote:
> filing cabinet!  Wyse setup discs, and a DOS tools disc, along with 
> other miscellaneous stuff..  All on 5.25".  I've dragged them home, 
> along with a suitable drive, and as soon as I can fit it into a PC 
> I'll read the discs and post the relevant files up somewhere.
>
Thanks!

> they were pretty solid machines ... weighed a ton, too...

You bet, feels like they're lead lined

Thanks again
Alan

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 21:24:43 2003

>and post the relevant files up somewhere.

Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/

Wyse Setup, Kaypro Setup,  Some driver discs for each.  DOS 3.30.
Also an Apricot boot disc.  See the .txt file on each for a directory.

They are straight dd images, if you are using dos/windoze, you'll need to 
use rawrite.exe or fdimage.exe (google for them) to copy these back to a 
floppy.

Regards

Rob.

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 21:24:55 2003

>Discs are up at http://www.irrelevant.com/cc/

hmm, it truncates the list, so for the record:-

AT + Kaypro Setup
AT + Kaypro Setup.txt
Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk
Apricot 286-386 release 1 system disk.txt  [*]
DOS3.3+Setup for Wyse.txt
Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bit + Video Emulaton SW
Kaypro Keyboard Driver 16bt + Keyboard Emulation SW.txt [*]
Kaypro Speedstor
Kaypro Speedstor.txt
Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00
Wyse Enhanced MS-DOS 3.3 System Diskette 1.00.txt [*]
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01
Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]
Wyse Setup
Wyse Setup-fdiag
Wyse Setup-fdiag.txt
Wyse Setup.txt
at setup
at setup.txt

Forgot to mention - files are labeled as the discs were - I think "AT 
setup" means "Wyse AT", as I had another disc labeled such with the same 
files on it, but with read errors.  Certainly Wyse were the main machines 
we used at the time, so it's unlikely to be anything else.  Those marked 
[*] are actual original discs - others are copies or contain just odd files.

Regards

Rob.

---

From: "Dr. Ido" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 21:25:46 2003

>Wyse Monochrome Graphics Display Adapter Utility Diskette 1.01.txt [*]

Are these for the Wyse card that drives the WY-800 monitor?

I've got one of these monitors somewhere, but have never been able to get
anything other than standard 80x25 DOS text mode out of it.  Very nice in
text mode, larger character cell than VGA, nice characters, long
persistance white phoshor CRT.  Without drivers it emulates CGA, but I'm
pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right
software/drivers.

---

From: "Rob O'Donnell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 21:26:38 2003

>pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right

To be honest, I don't know!

Apart from the above description, the label has a part code of 730288-01, 
(C)Wyse Technology, Inc. 1989.  No other info I am afraid..

Files on there include "mpatest.exe" so I suspect if you run that against 
your card it might indicate something..

regards

Rob,

---

From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed Apr 16 21:28:32 2003

> pretty sure it's capable of hires mono graphics with the right

It was also sold as the Amdek 1280.  Try to find a newer version of the
drivers (I doubt that I can find mine).  There were drivers available
through Windoze 3.10, as well as drivers for Xerox Ventura, etc.  The 1280
x 800 mode was one of the best of its time.

One common problem was a gradual loss of brightness.  There was another
brightness control inside the case that couldbe cranked up to get another
year or so before it became too dim to use.

One other common problem was idiots plugging it into a EGA, CGA, or MDA
board (or plugging a regular monitor into its special board).

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred        [email-masked]